You’re Not Meant to Walk Alone

(0:00 - 2:23)Hello, I'm Laurel Nicholson. I am the founder of the Death and Resurrection Doula Community on Convene Communities, and I have a special guest today, a good friend of mine and a colleague, Matthew Currin, who is the CEO and founder of Convene Communities, where I train Christian end-of-life doulas. So, Matt, welcome.Thank you for joining me today on my podcast. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, I want to give you a couple minutes to introduce yourself and then we'll jump right in.Yeah, so, well, like Laurel said, I'm Matthew Curran, I'm the creator and founder of Convene, the platform that she has her training on. A couple other interesting notes about me, I'm a retired Marine Corps pilot, flew helicopters in the Marine Corps and then led a lot of the initial missions in 2001, 2002 for our country in Afghanistan. So, I have those deployments under my belt, was retired, got medically retired out of the Marine Corps and flew air medical.So, I flew 659 patient flights as an air medical helicopter pilot, something I loved, really loved that. And, you know, you're making a difference in people's lives. And then the other thing was I left that job and I became the helicopter pilot for Team Penske NASCAR in Indy, and then I also fly two jets for Team Penske NASCAR in Indy and Penske Corps, Penske Automotive Group and all that.So, yeah, that's my side gig, but my true passion and my true love is convening communities. That's what I love most about everything that I do. Well, I tell you and I tell my friends, Matt's my cool friend, of all of the really awesome things you do.I have not known a lot of pilots in my life. My uncle was a pilot for Delta. But other than that, I've not really known anyone that has that level of expertise and training for flying.So, yeah, lots of stories, lots of flying, lots of stories. And I have a wife of over 30 years and three kids. So, 28, 26 and 22 now, two boys and two girls.You have a beautiful, beautiful family and smart kids too. The things you tell me that they do, they're just as smart. Got it from their mom, not me.(2:26 - 2:52)Wow. Well, and our friendship, Matt, started because of convening communities. And we're going to dive into that a little bit.And it's part of your story and part of my story. But first, I want to just repeat something you've said to me a lot and it sticks and it's the phrase, everyone has a story. So, if you dive into that a little bit more about what you mean.(2:52 - 5:44)Yeah, everyone has a story. So, not to dive too deep into it, but convene is here because of a story and it's not the greatest story in the world. I lost a good friend of mine in a helicopter crash on July 9th of 2001.And it was a story that just changed my life. The mishap, the total time of the crash took 12 seconds, they estimate. And so, 12 seconds changed everything in my life and how I think, how I do things.And from that, unfortunately, that loss became what is now convene communities. It's that we all have a story and we all have something to share. And it's important that we share our stories with others.I thank God put us here to do that. I thank God put us here to lift others up. And if you can take the struggles that you've gone through, but not just the struggles, even the positive things that you've gone through, and you can tell your stories and make a difference in people's lives.And that's what we're supposed to do. We're supposed to lift people up and let people know that they're not walking alone. You hear me say it all the time, I'll do my fingers like that and I'll say, we think we're walking alone, but we're not walking alone.You think you're the only one in the world that's gone through this hard time or this problem. You're not the only one. And so, you have to wake up and realize and by creating collaborative communities and hearing other stories, you realize, oh, wow, I'm not the only one who's gone through that.So, it might just be leaning on somebody and saying, hey, you've gone through what I've gone through. How did you make it through? And really learning from that. And that's really what convene communities all about.It's about collaborating and coming together, sharing our stories and lifting each other up. So, another motto, you say, real life, real people, real experiences. So, this is part of the convene vision.This is the convene vision. So, you want to share a little bit more about the vision for convene communities that's sprung forth out of your friend Clark's death. Yeah.So, real life, real people, real experiences is, we're all living this real life each and every day. And I think if we look in the mirror or we look across the table at our friends, life's not always easy. Life's pretty hard.And so, what people do is they allow these hard times, these hard experiences in life to just beat them down. And they don't get back up and get back up and get back up. And so, maybe that's a gift that I have.It's like, I can have a horrible day today, but I'm going to get back up tomorrow, and it's going to be a new day. And so, the hardest time of my life was in losing Clark. He was somebody that I flew 90% of the flights that I would go out on.He was my combat crew chief. He was always there. And this particular night, he went in the other helicopter to let a new person, a new guy to the squadron fly with me.(5:44 - 5:54)And they made a 12-second human error inside of that helicopter. And unfortunately, from that, three crew chiefs died. The two pilots survived, and he was one of them that died.(5:55 - 7:04)The problem was, and I found out about a day and a half later, is that what caused that mishap had happened in another squadron a year and a half prior, but they kept it a secret, Laurel. They didn't tell what caused that mishap, and it was a two-minute fix. It was literally unscrew one bolt and screw in another bolt and turn something into a switch that was called from a single toggle switch to a dual toggle switch would have made it impossible to turn this cockpit light on.And everybody focused on turning the light off, and nobody focused on flying the helicopter. And they flew it right, a perfectly good helicopter flew it right in the water. So, over time, I really, that stuck with me, and I made it my mission to go out and really share that story.So, and I was specifically thinking aviation. I don't want more aviation crashes. I don't want human error to happen.But I realized over time, I was at Duke University speaking one time, and everybody wanted to talk to me afterwards, not about time-critical decision-making and working in a high-risk environment. They wanted to talk to me about their marriage and their relationship and parenting, these topics that were near and dear to my heart. They would take my story and they would tie it to their real life.(7:05 - 11:26)And I was like, you know, there's something here. It's that we're not walking alone. We're walking with each other.We can lean on each other. And we go through, you know, people go through the same things over and over and over. So, what better place to do that than, you know, communities, you know, with like-minded people.And so, that's the real life, real people, real experiences. That is bringing people's real life, real experiences together. We're all real people.That's really what we're doing. We're trying to make it day by day. We're trying to do the best that we can.But the ultimate goal is, can you lift somebody up? Can you let them know that, yeah, you might be down today, but you don't have to be down tomorrow. If we all work together and all come together, if we all convene, we can do great things and make a difference. Wow.Well, your experience with the loss of your friend, your work as an air medical pilot prepared you when we met through a Zoom meeting that was a, you know, business networking meeting. And I had just not been hired at a job that I was really surprised because I thought I was a shoo-in. And I said, well, you know, in my mind, I knew I wanted to build a training program for end-of-life doulas.I was certified as an end-of-life doula. And I was not really sure where to get started, but not getting that job, which would have been full-time, I decided to join this networking group, which I'd sort of been on the fence about because, I don't know, if I get the job, I won't be able to go to all the meetings. Is it really worth the cost? But I wanted to network about my doula training.I was moved to a new city and wanted to network about my services and my dream for a training program. So anyway, you popped on this Zoom call. I joined the networking group because I didn't have a job.And you were the presenter that day, and you shared about convene communities, and you shared some examples of the communities that had already formed. And one, you know, stuck with me about teenagers. And I had two teenagers at the time.Mine are older now, a little bit older now. But I was like, wow, you know, I really believe in that. And I could see how impactful that would be.Well, when it came around that I had, you know, two minutes to share about what I did, you heard what I said, and your, you know, experience in the Marine Corps and your time with the patient flights, something resonated with you. And my life as an end-of-life doula, because you've seen a lot of death. You've seen a lot.It's hit you personally. It's hit you professionally. And you said, wow, that's someone I want to talk to.And I bet you'd never heard of an end-of-life doula. I had not. Yeah, no.I sent you a message through the meeting link, and I said, can we link up? And my first question was like, well, what is a death and resurrection doula, you know? And I think you probably get that a lot where you have to explain what it is. And so, you explained it to me, and I was like, okay, yeah, that makes sense. Yeah.Unfortunately, I have seen a lot of death, you know, both in the military, but mostly out as an air medical pilot. You know, you think you're landing on a road somewhere. Somebody leaves their house early in the day and has a car accident, and you're landing on the road, picking them up and taking them to a trauma center.And sometimes they make it, sometimes they don't make it. And so, I did 650 patient flights, and unfortunately, a lot of those ended successful, but a whole lot of those ended unsuccessful. And so, I saw it, and you start to look at it in a different way, a different light, you know? You know, I tend to say, you know, not to be like in a cynical view, but I do believe there's two certainties in life.You're going to be born, and you're going to die. You know, what you do in between is up to you. You know, we have a choice.We have a choice each and every day of what we do, how we treat people, the things that we do. And so, you know, let's make it the most impactful thing that we can possibly, you know, do each and every day. And so, it intrigued me what you did, you know? And so, I was like, well, this is something that I think could be very beneficial.It's a service. It's a service that is a giving and a loving service that you do. And yeah, so we talked, and yeah, we've been good friends ever since.(11:27 - 12:54)AMT – Yes, we have been. And your experience with losing Clark really resonated with my vision. You know, I have a theology degree and continue to study theology because I get, you know, real pleasure from reading.But one of the, you know, theologians I've done some reading in believes that, you know, death is Christ's pathway into the world. And so, it really kind of made sense to me that Convene was a great platform to put a ministry such as Tending to the Dying, to put that in there because, you know, God doesn't waste death, right? God uses death ultimately to bring his kingdom. And that's, we don't think of it that way, you know, at all.And death is an enemy. The scriptures declare it so. But because God has given us salvation in Jesus Christ, he also uses death powerfully.He's redeemed us through Jesus Christ from, you know, ultimate, you know, not having eternal life. And so, it all just really came together for me as God is doing something here. And as our friendship has grown over three years, you know, I think we can both attest to, wow, God really is doing something.(12:54 - 28:57)And my vision was pretty small when I met you, and you've helped me expand that dramatically. But, you know, we laugh about this. I'm like, well, I'm going to have two modules, a theological module and a practitioner module.And, you know, now I have three modules, and I have a collaboration group, and I just launched a volunteer program for those who don't want to take the full professional track. But, you know, one thing I love about Convene is there are so many components to it that your vision can be as big as you want it to be. You're never limited from the amount of creativity that you can have.And, you know, I never really thought about it, being a content creator, but that's essentially what I've become, not in the sense of someone, you know, maybe on TikTok, but in a different way. I mean, I have, you know, when I struggle through, you know, hard days maybe, and I'm like, wow, well, what is, you know, are things on time? You know, I feel like maybe, you know, I should have more people training with me by now. You know, I have to really trust the Lord when stepping out in an endeavor of, you know, something that doesn't exist.I have created something that at this point has not existed, which is a Christian end-of-life doula training program in the midst of many crises, an elder care crisis, a hospice crisis, a faith crisis around the world. So I have become a content creator and Convene is a fantastic platform for someone like me and for my doula. So they can learn from me by taking my modules and become their own creators or branding their own ministry focused on caregiving at the end of life, but bringing in their life experience to that.And here we are, we're talking about everyone has a story. Real life, real people, real experiences. Well, instead of an algorithm-based, you know, TikTok or Instagram model, you know, we're a real community and we are, you know, gravitating towards one goal inside of my community.But I'm not just, you know, the leader of that goal. We all come in together and we put in the effort and the creativity and we're, like I said, we're building something that doesn't exist. Well, I'll build on that and talk about that.It's because I think a lot of people underestimate the power of their story and the power of what they want to accomplish. And so I've had a lot of people, you being one of them, come to me and say, hey, you know, I have this, here's my story. I have this idea.I want to create it. And they don't, they think this small, you know, like we joke about it, but you wanted to create, you know, two courses, two modules. And that was it.You were ready to stop at that. And I'm like, no, whoa, whoa, whoa, no. You have, you think bigger, think bigger, you know, and you had the mindset of creating that impact.You didn't have the roadmap to get you to be able to create that impact. And everybody needs to understand this. Conveen is just a platform.That's all it is. You are the death, the resurrection doula. You are not, and it just so happens to be housed inside of this platform called Conveen.You know, it's just the platform, but it's you, it's you and your story and your mission and what you're creating with these other amazing women and men. And, you know, you're making a true impact, but you have to think bigger than what you possibly could ever dream. That's sometimes very overwhelming for people.It was a little overwhelming for you to begin with, but you, here's what it is. You have staying power. You have a belief in you, yourself, and you have a belief in your mission of what you want to accomplish.And it's about believing. I've been at Conveen, I've been at Conveen since 2015. We're getting ready to launch version 3.0. So it doesn't happen overnight.You have to, you have to continue to strive. You have to continue to believe in yourself and your mission and it'll happen. And it is growing.So yeah, that's just really it. You have to believe. You have to believe in your story and not walk away from your story and not walk away from something that you know is really good.Even though there's going to be good days, even though there's going to be days that you're frustrated because, you know, maybe the people are not signing up at the rate that you want them to. But if you build the foundation, and again, I tell you this all the time, and I've been on, I've been on you a lot recently about this, is okay, you've built the foundation. You've built module one, two, and three.You built the volunteer course. You've done all that. You have doulas and you've created the franchise model.Now go out and grow the franchise. You got to bring the customers into McDonald's, so to speak, right? You know, so now, and that, and so it's sometimes you've worked so hard on this communities on your training, but really what's bigger than that is your community that you're building. That's so much bigger than your training.Your training is just the force that's going to allow you to grow, and that's what's beautiful and special because you're going to be able to support the client, right? And that's the ultimate end game is how can you and your doula support that client at the end and the families that need your services. That's absolutely right. When I trained to be an end of life doula, that was in 2019, the fall of 2019, right before COVID started, and I did my training.It took me three months, I think, and I followed all the instructions. I made my business cards. I formed an LLC.I, you know, put press release in the local paper and waited. I built a website. I mean, did it all, right? And I waited and waited and waited.I didn't have a client for a year, and I remember, and part of that was COVID. At that point, I think the word or the phrase end of life doula was way less familiar than it has become now. You couldn't be face-to-face with people.You know, the woman who trained me sent out a post, become a remote doula, you know, and so, you know, marketed that, and, you know, nothing was going. Nothing was going, and so I just sort of put it aside and said, well, you know, I did want that theology degree, so I'm going to go after the theology degree. This is a good time to do it, and sure enough, soon after I entered into my first semester of seminary, I got a phone call on that website that I built, and somebody said, we're looking for a Christian to be an end of life doula, and just, you know, amazing.It was absolutely amazing, and everything I had worked for came together perfectly, and I said, wow, this really works, and, you know, the feedback from her family and her community was that I don't know how we would have done this without you, and it is true because extra hands are needed when someone is facing the end of their life, and so, you know, my bigger vision, as you're mentioning, is, you know, not just training, but it's to connect people who need the help with the doulas who are trained so well through my program. My program is fantastic. I have poured my heart into it for three years and fine-tuned and, you know, received feedback from my doulas and just really, really created something exceptional, and, you know, with the help of so many great contributors, it is really just, you know, a really fine training program, and but, you know, what do you do if you're a doula? You take a few modules, and you learn how to set up your business.Well, that's what I did, and, you know, it wasn't just the groundwork wasn't, you know, laid for me. We're doing something new, and so convene and all the components within your platform, Matt, you know, allow me to think bigger, which is to have a Christian end-of-life doula community that is focused on caregiving in Christ, hope for the resurrection, connecting people who are seeking biblical truth, you know, end-of-life care grounded in biblical truth with those who are trained well, and even, you know, outside of that, you know, church leaders, you know, come in and learn, you know, on, you know, what should a church do to prepare for these impending crises? You know, how can we better support our church communities? You know, what about education? All of this can be done inside of convene communities, support groups, you know, meal trains, just like you would find on CaringBridge or I Am Not Alone Care, you know, real caregiver caregiver support hub run by, you know, end-of-life doulas, and they're leveraging the platform to run their own community. So I'm, you know, up at the top as the leader developing the Death and Resurrection Doula Training Program and community, and then those who are certified, they start their own communities with their clients and their neighborhoods and lead their own, you know, their own communities, and they can create their own content, you know, based on their life experience mixed with, you know, what they've learned through the training program.So really this, what I think I said to you when we were first getting to know each other and, you know, the experience that we had and our goals and what we could offer one another is that I said, if you can't help me do this, I don't know who can. Well, the beautiful thing that you're creating is you've done it. You've created the template.You've created something that works. And, but you said it in the other program that you're a part of is you finish your training, that other program, and you walked away and you're like, okay, well, what do I do now? Well, you're not leaving your clients, the people that have gone through your training program, your doulas, you're not leaving them alone. You're they trained in the same, you know, capabilities that you have, you're giving that to them.It's part of your training program. And then you're creating a community. You're creating a thing where I'm from North Carolina, you're from Virginia.And if, if I need a doula in North Carolina, you could say, well, oh, I have a doula in North Carolina and here she is, or here he is, you know, go, go look at this group. So it's, it's truly something amazing. And no other platform does that, uh, gives you the opportunity to grow such a meaningful community.You might can grow a community with a, you know, a little dashboard, a little, you know, communication going on, but not truly when you're thriving together, you know, you're collaborating together in the collaboration group, you're helping each other grow, you know, by sharing each other's clients, if you're not in that same space or not in that same area. So it's, it's cool. It's, it's really good.And it's, it's, you know, you have some great things going on with your, you know, one, the podcast here, your international cafe, and it's providing support in a bigger way than just a doula. And that's what, again, that's what it's all about. That's why we're here on this earth is, is our job is to lift each other up.And so, yeah. And, and again, when you're entering that end of life phase or your family's entering that end of life phase, I mean, nobody, nobody enjoys that, you know, but if you can have somebody help you through that process, you know, all the better, and that's what you're creating. And it's wonderful.Well, you know, Clark's death, and then, you know, the deaths that you did see on your patient flights, none of those were planned, right? No one was prepared. So you've seen the hardship. I mean, death is hard anyway, and an unexpected death is, you know, brings unanticipated grief with it that, you know, can be mind-blowing, you know, something as simple as I don't even know how to get their phone, you know, that could, that just is, you know, undoing on a different level.And, and, you know, even thinking about what kind of care you want at the end of your life, you know, an accident happens, and, and, you know, your families are forced into those decisions, and they don't know what the person really wanted. So these become, you know, just unimaginable burdens. And so we, we hope through, you know, the, the efforts of, of the doulas that I train that we can lift that burden for many.But, you know, the practical side of it is great, and that's, you know, what I was, you know, thought was great about secular doula training program, but, but faith is really what's most important. Because even when things do go wrong, we, you know, we can, we can step back and say, well, you know, God has made a way in Jesus Christ, so we are certain He is going to make a way through, through all of this. And, and, and so, you know, when I trained to be an end-of-life doula through another program, and granted that was, you know, six years ago, so probably things have changed there, but I logged on, took a couple modules, no discussion board, no way to connect to the, the program developer.Once I was certified, I was given a link to go join a Facebook group where I could, you know, talk to other doulas certified in that program, but nothing of the magnitude for collaboration that we have on convene communities. I mean, I see the doulas coming together and forming friendships offline too, you know, but they're meeting through all of the easy collaborative features. And so if we see that happening in the training, we're going to see that happen through, you know, community support for, for families and, and their, their loved ones.Well, let's shift gears here for a little bit, Matt, because I think we've done a great job, you know, talking about the potential, and let's put it into real life. Yeah, let's, let's, let's apply it to, to real, to real life. So you've got a new chapter in your story.Yeah. So I just wrote a book, Laurel. It's going to be released here real soon.And, and I, I literally, my friend of mine proofread it for me. He called me with one suggestion. I made that change.He read the change. He said, yeah, that's wonderful. He said, I think we're done.And we slapped the table on it. Yep. We're good.We're done. And then two days later I go to the doctor and I get told that I have cancer. So, you know, a lot of what the, what my life story and, and what it is, is you have ups, you have downs, you fall down, you get knocked down, you get back up, you keep going.But I literally wrote the end of that book is that I made it, I made it through all these ups and downs. I made it through all these lefts and rights, you know, getting knocked down to the canvas. If I was a boxer, I made it and now convene 3.0 is launching, you know, I'm here.And then I got reminded that, uh, no, you're not here yet. You know? And I always pray. I pray this all the time.I pray, you know, God, use me for your will. And, and you and I've joked about this in the last couple of weeks, God use me for your will. And I think God's called my bluff.He said, are you sure? You know, are you sure you want me to use you or, you know, my will? And I'm like, yes, God, use me for your will. And so when you hear that word, you know, and see it, that you have cancer, man, I'm 53, I'm pretty healthy and I look pretty healthy, right? I'm pretty healthy. I feel pretty good.And then all of a sudden, you know, I'm sitting here, you wouldn't know if you said, we said it earlier, you wouldn't know I have cancer, you know, but yeah, I have cancer now. And, and hopefully it's going to be, I have surgery coming up here in a few days and hopefully they're going to get it all out and I'm going to be good to go and we're going to keep marching. But man, what can I use this chapter for? What kind of groups can I create and support can I create for others who have walked through that cancer? Like I'm walking through it right now.(28:58 - 29:54)You know, there's an opportunity here and God never wastes a chapter. I wrote that in the epilogue of the book, you know, is God never wastes a chapter. Well, this is a new chapter, you know? And so, yeah, we're going to, we're going to start the new chapter and we're going to, we're going to make it happen.But that's what convene's all about. That's what the platform is all about. That's what your community is all about.And, you know, it's kind of funny because a year ago, two years ago, we were trying to show your doulas, what, what, you know, how the convene communities could work is inside of your personal, because you have a personal group because you are a doula. You have a personal group inside of your community. And so I'm one of your clients inside, inside of your community.Well, how ironic is that, that I- We didn't have to form a new group. And there's a group and yeah, we put some stuff in there, but guess what? Now it's a real group. Yeah.(29:54 - 30:41)Now we're going to go fill this stuff out for real, not just putting it in there to show as an example, because, you know, there's little things that now that I sit back and, you know, you know, knock on wood, you know, everything turns out okay. But what have I done? You know, I have a wife and kids that I have to make sure are taken care of. I need to, you know, make sure that everything's in order, you know, whether that be now or whether that be 30 years from now, let's pray it's 30 years from now.What if it's not? You know, I'm not prepared. And that's what, you know, the group's supposed to be about. You know, that's what we told everybody we were going to start and we're going to do it.But now it's a great place to do it. You know, we can, I can put my documents in there that my family needs. I can, we can put some sensitive topics and discussion boards if we need to in there.(30:42 - 31:27)You know, it's a, it's a way in your community with you guiding us to get our directives in place, to get our other documents in place. And then God, you know, I, and you know, I, I can say this cause I have cancer. Yeah.And it may go down a bad path. I don't think it will, but it could, but I could also easily go get in my car and have a helicopter land on the highway and pick me up. And I did that a lot.I landed a lot where people left our house thinking that life was okay. And by the end of the day, it was not okay. And I don't, you know, want that to happen to my family, you know? So it's, it's a different way of thinking that, um, yeah, we were doing it kind of as a show, but now it's real, you know, it's truly real.(31:27 - 33:18)It's, um, you know, it's there, you know, and you don't ever expect it. You don't ever expect. I remember, you know, I, you know, I was doing what I was doing.I had to get a biopsy and, and I told my wife, let's get this biopsy. And she's like, Oh God, why are you, you know, why are you doing that? You know, you don't need that. And, and then when I found out I was riding down the road the day after Thanksgiving, when the results came in and I walked in and I looked at her and she goes, what's wrong? And I looked at her and said, I have cancer.Wow. You know, that, that, those words sting, sting when you open it up and you read down it. And then all of a sudden it says cancer, cancer, cancer, you know, it's like, wow, it's for real.It's real. It's real. Well, we know at this point you have a good prognosis and, but that doesn't mean it's not a lot of weight on you.I mean, we've been talking every couple of days cause we're friends, but we're also talking about the real out, the reality that you have received a cancer diagnosis and the uncertainties that come with that. And, you know, so your, your family needs support. You need support.So we need support, even if we're not terminal, but we have, you know, a diagnosis that's, you know, uncertain because it's, it's important not just to get your things in order, but to have support. And, you know, you've said to me, Matt, that you've been checking out some support groups here and there and the, and the, just the, I mean, I, you know, I'm not sure exactly which word you use, but just the, just the encouragement you're finding for other people who have been or are in a similar position to you. And there's some men who have, you know, gotten better through treatment and they're coming back and saying, Hey, I've been there with you.(33:19 - 38:33)Or their wives come in and say, Hey, you know, my husband's going through this, you know, what, what might I expect? How can I be a good caregiver to him? It makes a difference. We are not alone. As you said, from the very beginning, we're not going through these things alone.And what's so wonderful about technology is that we can connect with people far away and stay in touch and, and offer support and, and, you know, weather the storms of life with them. Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, that, that, I think that's, you know, the calling on me now is that it's, I need to create this category, create this, you know, community and create these support networks.And I think it just, yeah, you can do it obviously in Facebook, you can do it in other places, but now this is dedicated to that, that topic, you know, without the noise, you know, you're going to it and you're, you're in there for a reason. And there's a lot more too. You know, what convened us, the structure, discussion boards, you know, the blogs, the, the, the, just the document management, you know, I, you know, I'd said to you earlier that, you know, one of the most meaningful posts that I've seen is like when the, the wives go in there and they say, you know, my husband has this cancer, what can I do for him after the surgery? And not only do you get the, the practical things, the things you need to buy, the material things you need to buy, but you also get the other side of it, you know, the support and all that.But it, so you could create a document. And so when somebody answers that question, just, man, send that document to them and connect with them in that way. I just think there's so much that, um, that my eyes have been open to that, that, you know, can come from this, uh, the goodness that can come from this.And, um, yeah, I've been building this thing for 10, 12 years, you know, and now it's, uh, it's taken on a whole new meaning. Um, and, and there's nothing off the table. It's, there's so many people that need support and so many different and, uh, yeah, it's, you know, that, you, you know, we've talked all about it and everything, but people are not walking alone.Again, back to we all have a story, you're not walking alone. So that's what this whole platform is about, is to, is to come together. Yeah.I think social media can fool us a bit to think that everybody's life is really great, except for yours. You know, in my training program, I have an experience, um, which in, in the first module, the theological module, which is to write your story. And so there's some, you know, structure to, to that.And I, uh, share my story as, as a mechanism, um, for, for part of that structure. But I, I, I, I do it in two parts. I give like, this is what my story would look like on Facebook, you know, track state star, you know, you know, straight A's, got into the first college of my choice, you know, whatever, uh, you know, lovely Christian family, great, safe community.But if you, but you know, unless you really knew me, you wouldn't know that I struggled with anorexia and bulimia for 20 years and that my marriage was a mess and that, you know, this and this and this. Um, so it's, it's, it's easy to become, you know, downcast because you think, well, nobody else knows what it's like. And I feel that way about, you know, not health related things about, but some other things in my life.I know we all do. And so being with people co-suffering, uh, which is really, you know, something we understand differently when we're Christians is, you know, we, we suffer, uh, as Christians and, and, um, you know, in a spiritual way, as much as, as a physical way. And just, you know, we come to know what the cross means in our lives and, and we can co-suffer with, with one another.And, um, and so, you know, this community is, uh, special with, with that and, and your platform, which is not for Christians only, right. It's for everybody, but it does really bring something new to the table for, for the Christian faith. I think a lot of, a lot of people live this life where, woe is me.I'm having, you know, I, oh my gosh, my, it's not good. It's not good. But nobody ever promised you that life was going to be easy.And the reality of it is you may think it's bad, but it's not that bad. It's not that bad. I don't care.I have cancer, but I mean, I have a wonderful wife. I have an amazing family. I have a God that loves me, you know, tomorrow.It doesn't Matter. Just don't let yourself get down, pick yourself up and keep going, keep going. And, uh, you know, that's the ultimate goal for me is to not let people think that, oh, my life is just, it's over.It's done so bad. No, it's not that bad. We're here.We're talking, we're breathing, we're loving each other. We're lifting each other up. So let's go, let's go.You make it happen. You make the difference in your life. You can choose to go down a sad path and a bad path.(38:33 - 38:42)You can go choose to go down a positive path. That's, that's my choice. You know, it's like Denzel Washington says, always fall forward, never fall backwards.(38:42 - 39:25)I choose not to fall backwards. I never fall backwards. It doesn't Matter.Fall forward, fall forward. And guess what? When you think things are perfect, guess what? There might be a new chapter tomorrow. And that's where we're at.So now you just got to close this chapter up and keep moving. Well, I appreciate you being open and honest about your diagnosis, about your, you know, surprise at that, but yet you're willing to, um, let God use you as he wills. He's, he's done that, that work in you to bring you to, to this place.And we have to know that this isn't an accident. It's not outside of God's sovereignty. He knows exactly what is going on.(39:25 - 39:51)He's given you a vision. He's given me a vision. Um, he's, he's brought us together.He's put the call on people's hearts to, um, serve, uh, you know, people who, um, who need, who need special care. And so I, I feel privileged, Matt, to, um, to, to know that I'm walking in this season with you. Yeah.Well, I appreciate it. And like you said, you know, you never give up, right? Uh, you're going to have ups and downs, but just, just don't give up. Don't give up on your story.(39:51 - 39:57)We all have a story. Don't give up on your story. Whatever your story ends up being, don't give up.That's it. Thank you, Matt. Thank you.