Tell the Next Generation: A Conversation on Christian Legacy

(0:00 - 0:14) Well, here we are, Candy. I am so glad you joined me today. And the topic of legacy projects, which is kind of our big point of our discussion today, is becoming really popular for end-of-life doulas. (0:15 - 0:44) My training program has a section on legacy projects and listening to the stories of others. Several doulas in my training program have engaged in their own legacy projects, sharing them with their family. One doula who trained in my program, she actually specifically trained because she felt the Lord impressing the word legacy on her heart, and that by being an end-of-life doula, she was going to be able to fulfill that call to God. (0:44 - 1:09) So then I learned about you through another end-of-life doula in my program who met you at a workshop or a conference, and she connected us. And we had a wonderful time talking and learning that we really have a lot in common with our lives, and I want to share that soon. But first, I would love it if you would just tell me a little bit more about yourself. (1:10 - 1:37) And I will say you're a lawyer, which is fantastic. And when you joined the Fellowship Cafe the day that I did a Five Wishes presentation, your insight was very helpful. End-of-life doula is not a lawyer, does not have legal background, so to have some of your fine points that you could add when discussing end-of-life directives was really, really helpful. (1:37 - 1:41) So I'm indebted to you and grateful. Oh, you make my heart sing. Thank you. (1:41 - 2:04) Yes, I'm grateful you're here today, and I do love the conversations around legacy projects, so I'm excited about this. But you began in family law and moved into Christian conciliation, relational wisdom coaching, and legacy projects. So I'm curious how all these threads came together in one calling. (2:05 - 2:14) It's a big question, I know, but I would love to hear more. Well, it's kind of hard to condense it because I'm so old. So this is a problem. (2:15 - 2:33) But I did kind of write it out. I don't want to just read it, but otherwise I could ramble on with a thousand different stories that the Lord has constructed. And you just make my heart sing that your doulas are right there with those legacy understandings and feelings because it's powerful. (2:34 - 2:45) But I did start out post-college. I was a fourth-grade teacher, but that was in Boulder, Colorado, while my husband was attending law school. But he was drafted out of law school for the Vietnam War. (2:45 - 2:59) That was the era we were in. Took us to Atlanta, Georgia, and Atlanta, Georgia, it was mid-year, couldn't do any of the teaching. So I went downtown and got a job as a legal secretary. (2:59 - 3:18) I had some skills, and it turned out to be this man was a prominent personal injury lawyer. He was great for me and encouraged me, gave me confidence, inspired me to pursue Knight Law School, even covered half my tuition to do that. So that started my interest in law. (3:18 - 3:27) But two years later, we left Atlanta, came back to Boulder for my husband to finish law school. He did that. I continued working as a legal secretary again. (3:28 - 3:39) But then very shortly after, he became a lawyer. Then he wanted to go back to his hometown in Pueblo, and that was where he was offered a job in a law firm there. And we moved to Pueblo. (3:40 - 3:53) And by then, the second son came along while I was in Pueblo. But in Pueblo, it was such a small legal community that I could not continue being a legal secretary. So I went to the district attorney's office and said, I think you need a female investigator. (3:54 - 3:57) And he said, OK. And I said, I think you need her part time. And he went, OK. (3:58 - 4:14) So I did for five years a criminal law side of being an investigator. Then I had just transitioned to deciding to sell real estate. And my boys were six and eight at that time when the divorce occurred. (4:15 - 4:22) And that really derailed my life. It just took me for a spin that I didn't think I would come out of. But it took me a while. (4:23 - 4:28) I did get out of it. And then I did look around and say, wait, I can move. The boys and I can move. (4:28 - 4:39) We moved to Denver and went to the University of Denver Law School. Because I had gotten accepted. And basically, we did our studies together. (4:39 - 4:44) We did sports together. We were very poor. I had to do financial aid. (4:44 - 4:54) It was a struggle. But as a single mom, that just proves you're crazy when you go to law school. What in the world were you thinking? One of my part time jobs was throwing a newspaper out. (4:55 - 5:07) So basically, that kept me out of church. That was a good excuse. I had really lost track and was in a new age and following yoga and just kind of wandering to fill that hole in my heart. (5:08 - 5:12) But after law school, I did. I was turning 40. I was in. (5:12 - 5:20) I turned 40 in law school. So I was in my 40s. I did go back to church and found a small group of women that met weekly with me. (5:20 - 5:31) And we were all there together, but Godly women who started my walk with the Lord. It was a beautiful time. And it basically brought me back to walking with him. (5:31 - 5:39) But during that time, I was doing insurance litigation. I clerked for them during law school. I got the job after we finished. (5:40 - 5:50) I finished law school. And basically, that's litigation in a courtroom. And I was doing it the way I'd been taught in law school, shark litigation, you know. (5:50 - 5:57) And basically, I realized it's hard. It was tough. Nobody ever walked out of the courtroom and wanted to shake hands and be friends. (5:57 - 6:03) It just didn't deal with relationships. It was tough. But I did well at it. (6:04 - 6:13) It turned out, though, in the middle of that, I was involved with the Christian Legal Society. And I also, at church, had found my second husband. And we had been married. (6:13 - 6:28) We went to a conference of the Christian Legal Society. And I found the whole program was around Ken Sandy's Peacemaker Ministries and his book, The Peacemaker. I was touched. (6:28 - 6:39) My heart was just bleeding. I could not understand how powerful it was. But I bought the book, read it all the way across Kansas as we drove back home. (6:39 - 6:47) And I realized I needed to apologize to my boss. And he was not a Christian. And that was a huge turning point for me. (6:48 - 7:03) That's when I tell Ken Sandy, you took my nice little life going this way, and you gave me a right-hand turn. Just absolutely changed my life to find out there is a way to deal with relationships. It's called Christian Mediation and Arbitration. (7:04 - 7:14) And I got trained in it, certified in it. I became a mentor and trainer with Peacemaker Ministries. Had lots of great years of doing that and enjoyed it greatly. (7:14 - 7:27) Ken Sandy has now gone on to do another ministry, which I'll tell you about in a minute. But basically, I followed him, and we still work together in times. And I joined his ministry in that respect. (7:27 - 7:42) But I found that as I was finishing, the litigation was really hard. And so I found that a group of Christian attorneys in Denver were wanting to form a conciliation ministry. And they did. (7:43 - 7:51) And a conciliation, it just means mediation and arbitration. You're just doing it alternative to court. And you're using biblical scripture to follow. (7:52 - 8:10) So basically, I ended my job at the insurance staff attorney office and said, I need to go do this. Part-time, I volunteered as the executive director for the next two years. And then I kept my shingle out, practicing law for those two years. (8:10 - 8:22) And basically, that gave me a ton of experience in mediation work, which I saw working beautifully. And it's hard. And it doesn't always mean that people look good. (8:22 - 8:37) It doesn't give you the success you want, but I could see the Lord at work. So finally, we were able to hire an executive director, and I moved to a Christian law firm. And at that law firm, I had the biggest argument with the Lord. (8:37 - 8:47) They needed a family law attorney to take over because somebody had left, and they had this work. And I told the Lord, I didn't want to do that kind of work. You know where I've been. (8:47 - 8:54) You know how hard that will be. And he finally convinced me his people were in there, and I needed to deal with it. And that was true. (8:55 - 9:14) So I spent the next over 12, 13 years doing family law, where relationship was huge and important to deal with. So that led me to really focus on people rather than the legal side of it. And about 2008, I said, I'm done with litigation. (9:15 - 9:27) Enough of this. And I was out on my own by that point. But I have continued to today to do Christian mediation and arbitration, whatever cases the Lord brings me, not really advertising that. (9:27 - 9:45) So that's how I ended up doing that kind of work as well. But that brought me into understanding what the Lord is doing in our life is more important than what the law says we have to do. And it's important to see what the Lord wanted in the way of obedience. (9:47 - 10:06) So I share my whole banana of the professional work that, just to illustrate, the Lord doesn't waste one bit of our history. All the way from what I did as a schoolteacher and how much it was, it was beautiful. The legal secretary work, the criminal investigation work taught me about abuse of women. (10:07 - 10:23) And since I was the only female, I had all the child abuse, sexual assault, those kind of cases. So I was well-schooled when I got into family law, and I was able to use all of that. So today, though, here's the big twist that fits our legacy discussion. (10:23 - 10:54) I found that that hobby trail that I have had in my life actually came up to the surface. I'm still occasionally taking conciliation cases, but the hobby trail involved, about 30 years ago, I actually was doing scrapbooking pretty regularly on the side, and that paired up with another hobby field that I actually have dabbled in. I dabbled in my 20s, recording my grandfather, and that's genealogy and legacy materials. (10:55 - 11:25) So I love that. The entrepreneurial venture that I do now is melding the two of those together, and I love it. Shouldn't surprise me that the Lord was directing, but I found that I really paired up with a tool that helped people put it online and build a digital home for their legacy materials, photos, movies, whatever they have, documents, everything that they had in the way of an ancestor, you can put it in one place now. (11:25 - 11:29) Organize it. Pull it together. Make a life story show up for you. (11:30 - 11:51) So I started a weekly blog a few years ago, which was addressing Christian conciliation, just where the Lord was in relationships in our life, and I added in the photos and stories. So that weekly blog has both of those melded together, and that has really shaped where I'm really at. I want to do the Lord's description of our legacies. (11:52 - 11:57) AG Oh, wow. CM It helps. AG You have an amazing career. (11:58 - 12:19) You're a wealth of knowledge, and more importantly, a wealth of wisdom. You have a wealth of wisdom because the Lord, right before you said he doesn't waste anything, I was thinking about that. And particularly, I've been through a divorce myself, so I do know about the harshness of litigation. (12:20 - 12:45) We tried to mediate as well, and we ended up in litigation because we weren't mediating well. It's terrible, and you went through a divorce, and I just think our experience really helps us understand where people are. God used that hard time in your life and has brought his glory through it, where you can help people in a better way. (12:45 - 13:10) And I sure wish when we went through a divorce that we had known something of that because I think both Christians, me and my former husband. So I'm really, really glad to hear about that, and I do hope if anyone who hears this podcast might reach out to you or go look at your website, which I'll have posted in the description because you have two different websites. Both of them are beautiful. (13:10 - 13:32) One for your conciliation work and one for your legacy work. I do want to show where our friendship is and how we connected immediately because I think this is so important for Christians, for women to understand. You live in Colorado. (13:33 - 13:47) I lived in Colorado 10 years. That's where I lived when I was first married and had two children there, and then I moved to New York, and I live in Virginia now. But I love Colorado so much. (13:48 - 14:04) I've spent time in Boulder and Denver. I lived in Crested Butte, which is very high altitude, lots of snow, skiing, a great place to trail run and get on your mountain bike. Very, very special. (14:05 - 14:28) But there are other important places where we overlap, and I think it says a lot about our individual work as well, but how beautifully what we do comes together and why we're here sharing today. But I mentioned I spent years as a single mom. I also went back to school, pursued a higher degree after having children as a single mom. (14:28 - 14:48) I put together all sorts of jobs that made it work, but money was very tight. I know exactly what it's like to go to school and work a lot and have your children at home, so we share that experience. And— Wondering if they will have enough money to have cable TV this month. (14:49 - 14:51) That's right. That's right. Absolutely. (14:51 - 15:39) But most importantly, we both attest to salvation at a young age, but a deeper walk with Christ later on. And I grew up in a great Christian home and community, and I knew the truth of Jesus Christ, but I too wandered, dabbled in yoga and New Age thinking and things like that, and I still believed in God. I just—there was something that wasn't resonating with me about God and about Jesus, and it wasn't until I was late 30s that I heard the gospel in a way that it just—it resonated like a new word in my ears. (15:39 - 15:52) And what I really, really came to hear was that there was nothing that I could do to please God. Christ has pleased God on my behalf, and because of my faith, God is pleased. He loves me. (15:53 - 16:05) And years of perfectionism, I struggled very, very deeply with eating disorders. I hated myself. I hated my body. (16:05 - 16:26) And the Lord slowly, through that good, pure word of the gospel, melted away all the shame and brought forth a new person. And that's part of what brought me into being an end-of-life doula, is that I just—I'm a servant now. No more, you know, what do I want? I'm a servant. (16:26 - 16:47) And the Lord's gifted me around people who are suffering and nearing the end of their life, suffering spiritually and emotionally with the prospect that their life is ending. And so, anyway, so I love that about our stories. And I'm just—I'm very, very glad we're friends. (16:48 - 16:55) Okay. So—and that our ministries complement each other so well. All right. (16:55 - 17:15) So I want to talk a little bit more about your calling, especially with the Lexi Projects. And on your website, you can see that you have—your call is shaped by Scripture. And the Scripture in Deuteronomy, verses—Chapter 6, 20 through 25. (17:15 - 17:22) I can read that. I have it pulled open. So let me read it, and then we'll talk about that a little bit more. (17:23 - 17:42) All right. Deuteronomy 6, verse 20. When your son asks you in time to come, saying, What do the testimonies, the statutes, and the ordinances which Yahweh our God has commanded you mean? Then you shall tell your son, We were Pharaoh's slaves in Egypt. (17:42 - 18:02) Yahweh brought us out of Egypt with a mighty hand. And Yahweh showed great and awesome signs and wonders on Egypt, on Pharaoh, and on all his house before our eyes. And he brought us out from there, that he might bring us in, to give us the land which he swore to our fathers. (18:03 - 18:24) Yahweh commanded us to do all these statutes, to fear Yahweh our God for our good always, that he might preserve us alive as we are today. It shall be righteousness to us if we observe to do all these commandments before Yahweh our God as he has commanded us. Mm-hmm. (18:25 - 18:34) Absolutely. That's the call that I found. The first part was, even in the first, the whole of chapter 6 just turns me on. (18:34 - 18:47) It's exciting. But in the first part, it's talking about love the Lord with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, with all your mind. It's basically just you need to have your heart and your mindset in the right place. (18:47 - 18:53) But that's when I really got to going through it. And I'm going, and he says, Remember the commandments. Remember the commandments. (18:54 - 18:58) Think about them. Meditate on them all the way through. It's just focus on these. (18:59 - 19:11) Obedience was the huge piece for me. But in our part of keeping those reminders, I think it's earlier in the chapter, yeah, he says, impress them on your children. Focus on them at all times. (19:11 - 19:17) Keep reminders of them everywhere. And that's where I began to think, yes, reminders. We need those. (19:17 - 19:29) And we need to pass it along to our children. But as I got into doing a little bit more this in the last, I would say in the last year or so, I've been researching my great, great grandfather. It just hit me. (19:29 - 19:45) I don't know. There was one picture my mother had towards the end of her life, and she put all of our family photos that were in a drawer for a long time in those Unsafe albums. I found them when she was in her late 70s. (19:46 - 19:53) And I went, Oh, my gosh, mother. And not a name on them, no stories, nothing. So I sat down with her. (19:53 - 19:58) I wrote as fast as I could. It was pre-computer. Got all of her information. (19:58 - 20:09) But she only had one picture of this great, great grandfather. It was her great grandfather, but my great, great grandfather and his wife standing in front of their house. Stick figures. (20:09 - 20:12) I call them thick figures. You can't see their face. You can't tell. (20:12 - 20:21) You don't know anything. And she didn't know any stories. So as I moved all of those photos to the Safe albums, I then began to do research. (20:21 - 20:43) But it's only been in the last year or two I've really dug in to this great, great grandfather. And it's hit me that his life impacted his granddaughter, who was my grandmother, his granddaughter in the way of walking with the Lord. And she was one of the major impacts on my life in knowing the Lord and walking with the Lord. (20:43 - 21:00) So I want to go back to him. And I began to get into his life. And at age 19, he and his brother joined the U.S. Army Cavalry because they needed more people to staff settlers moving through Kansas Territory. (21:01 - 21:08) And so they fought Indians. They killed buffalo to feed the fort. They were cavalry members. (21:08 - 21:16) And I just see this rough and tumble guy for five years. But somewhere he ends up in Texas, marries. How he got there, I don't know. (21:16 - 21:26) They're married. But within six months, he's off to the Civil War as a Texas Confederate cavalry soldier. And he fights. (21:27 - 21:33) That I've read parallel stories. I wish I had a diary from him, anything from him. But I've read the parallel stories. (21:33 - 21:40) It's horrible, horrible fighting for those two years. And then the last year of the Civil War, he's taken prisoner. He is in a prison. (21:41 - 21:52) And he is in a Union prison somewhere. But three days after Abraham Lincoln is assassinated, he walks out of the prison. And the Civil War is at an end for his unit. (21:53 - 22:05) And he gets back home. And I think what he has been through, what he has done, the horrors, the terrible times. But what finally ends up, and I'll cut it short because I can go on. (22:05 - 22:11) I just have learned more. As I researched, I found more pictures of them, he and his wife. More of his stories. (22:11 - 22:27) Had 14 kids, 10 of which lived to adulthood. But he began as a cotton farmer with three other friends of his to meet on Sundays. And every Sunday, they were faithful to have one of the four, some of the four of them. (22:27 - 22:35) But they didn't have many Bibles. They used Webster's spelling book because they were meeting in a school. And it turns out, I got a copy of that. (22:35 - 22:42) It has a ton of biblical principles and stories in it. It's great. That's what they used every Sunday meeting. (22:42 - 22:49) And it took seven years before they could found a church. I found the church history and his name in it. And then his obituary. (22:49 - 22:58) I'll jump to that. Finally, I got a lot of other documents about him. But he became an itinerant preacher. (22:58 - 23:10) He went from town to town preaching. As a young man, they say, as a young adult, he found a church. And I gather it's probably after he came home from the Civil War, because he was only in his 20s at that point. (23:11 - 23:17) 29. And so basically, I think he became an itinerant preacher. He was a Godly man. (23:18 - 23:29) And they went through all of the Godliness that they mentioned in his obituary. And I thought, he shaped my grandmother. I know, because she was very close to him. (23:29 - 23:40) And she shaped me. That just made me go, yes, we need to know our legacies. The Lord brought him out, brought him through horrendous stuff. (23:41 - 23:46) And he will do the same for me. But all we need is to be obedient to him. I don't know. (23:47 - 23:53) I so value my Bible now. I go, wait, I have a ton of Bibles. And they didn't even have enough to each have a Bible. (23:54 - 24:07) But he knew God, and he stayed with him. So those are the stories that I think legacy materials are reflecting Deuteronomy 6. Tell the story. Tell the Lord's story in your family's life. (24:10 - 24:24) That is absolutely amazing. I believe it's important to see in our history where God is at work, just as you're saying. And there's so much that we probably don't know. (24:24 - 24:52) And we're not grateful for, because we don't know it. But what a heart of gratitude legacy projects will create. And getting back a little bit to conciliation, which its opposite is discord, so often we harbor resentment to family members more than we harbor gratitude for how their life has shaped you. (24:53 - 24:59) So I see healing inside. Exactly. These legacy projects, because we may not know. (24:59 - 25:12) It's so easy to remember the hardships, so easy. But we can find gratitude through going and seeing where God has been at work. And even when there is discord, God is at work at that. (25:12 - 25:28) I remember a season of discord with my parents. And I went on for many, many years, and I was telling a pastor about it. And he said, you know, Jesus is in the mud with all of you. (25:28 - 25:44) And it was a really refreshing way to hear that. And one thing I'm always making sure that I talk about when I talk about the gospel is justification. God has justified me in Christ, not because I did good things. (25:45 - 25:55) He's justified me despite the bad things. He's also justified my parents, for example. And therefore, we are equal under God's justification. (25:55 - 26:11) We're humans, we are weak, and we are sinful, and He's justified all of us. So Jesus is for me as much as He's for each of my parents. And reconciliation is God's ultimate goal, redemption, restoration. (26:12 - 26:37) We look forward to that with a new heaven and a new earth, but we also see it already. Might be years of suffering and discord, but we do see God breaking in, particularly through, you know, faith, reconciliation, these moments of, you know, the recognition of our weakness and our need for Jesus. That is God's kingdom breaking in. (26:37 - 26:58) And so these legacy projects just open a wide door for us to celebrate God's goodness. 灘 That is exactly true. I can't tell you how many mediations I dealt with that were centered around a loved one who was leaving the earth and the family needed to reconcile. (26:59 - 27:16) And often it did lead to reconciliation of brothers or sisters and family members coming together in a way that they wanted to serve mom or dad, and they hadn't spoken for years. So yeah, those happen as well. It's the Lord at work. (27:17 - 27:28) My teaching and training that I did in conciliation work and do is basically saying to people, I know I hate conflict. I ran from conflict. My folks were good at conflict. (27:28 - 27:41) And basically, I just, as soon as conflict happens, I still flinch. But then the next thing I remember is the Lord is knocking on their hearts. When there's conflict, He's knocking on our hearts. (27:41 - 27:50) He wants in and He wants to do business. And that's our job is to open up and remember He's Lord. He has business for us to do. (27:50 - 28:09) What is it? Help me see it. Let's take care of it. And basically, it is reconciliation, and basically, reconciliation with Him as well as with each other because that's one of the obedience is that we are to love our neighbor as ourself. (28:09 - 28:18) Yeah. That's right. When we realize we need God's forgiveness, first and foremost, that is the kingdom of heaven breaking in. (28:18 - 28:27) It turns us out to others, our neighbors, our family members, and says, I need to forgive you or I need you to forgive me. Right. Yeah. (28:27 - 28:29) Right. Wow. True obedience. (28:30 - 28:45) True obedience exemplified by Christ and His death on the cross. And I can see that the doulas that you are training are going to be in the midst of that too. And they can be ambassadors of reconciliation for sure. (28:45 - 28:48) That's right. That's true. Amazing. (28:49 - 29:02) Well, here's another big question. Many people feel overwhelmed by the volume of stuff. You know, I go over to my mom's house because I'm getting rid of things so you don't have to do it after I'm gone. (29:02 - 29:10) I'm like, oh, my God, mom. Yes. But not just stuff, painful chapters in our history. (29:11 - 29:21) So my question, how do you guide people through the emotional and practical sides of legacy? Yeah. Yeah. Preservation. (29:22 - 29:33) Yeah. The overwhelm is probably the most common problem that people are dealing with even before they get to the emotional side of it. But basically there's so much stuff. (29:33 - 29:48) And I realized I took genealogy courses and they taught you to take all that paper, duplicate it and put it in everybody's three ring binder. And it takes up, you know, filing cabinets. And then you have an ancestry tree over there that has more data. (29:48 - 30:03) And then you're entering data in another program. And then you are also, your photos are in a whole different program. And so I found scattered as well as overwhelmed was the problem as well. (30:03 - 30:26) So basically what I've done, I hooked up with a company that has the only tool I know of that does guarantee online digital storage of your legacy materials all in one place for a hundred plus years. And they do it where you purchase it up front. That way it's like an institution or a foundation that funds. (30:27 - 30:40) And they take care of changing the modems or the modalities. We don't have tapes anymore. My first recording of my grandfather was on a cassette tape that I was very fragile and afraid to deal with. (30:41 - 30:54) And it needed to be digitized. So my first job is to help people understand digital home is your best place to go. Then we put it all together in the structure that Forever has in their company of albums. (30:55 - 31:09) And so each ancestor has an album with all of their stuff in one album, one place. All of their photos, all of their stories. And there's a great opportunity to attach to a photo the very story it's talking and bringing up to you. (31:09 - 31:26) And I can see that being possible, especially as people are at the end of their life, they are reminiscing and they have milestones they can relate. They can talk about what's really important, what really changed their life, what was important in their life. To capture those would be powerful. (31:27 - 31:38) But they also need to be preserved. So my first job is to help people understand you can get help digitizing or I can help you show how to do the digitizing. Get it all digital. (31:38 - 31:49) Put it all in one place. Take a deep breath and you can organize and work it there. But it's there and ready for those that come after you, for the future generations. (31:50 - 31:59) And that's the important piece, preserving it. If that helps, I found the tools to do it. But I've also had to help people understand why it's important to do it. (32:00 - 32:15) Because their legacy, their memories of their parents, their grandparents, firsthand information disappears with them. We don't think about that. And I had one lady, she said, well, I can't write my life story. (32:15 - 32:24) I haven't died yet. And I thought, OK, are you thinking you're going to write it after? But we had to really kind of go. We have some strange thinking around that. (32:24 - 32:34) But the Lord has a reason for us to remember certain things. And I think we begin to focus on those as we get to the end of our life. And we want to be able to do that. (32:34 - 33:05) So that's where I help people is to help them find the tools they need, pull it together, make the structure, build the structure that's ready for their legacy materials to be put into it and everything gathered in one place. It's that scattered feeling that makes you feel overwhelmed. But the other beautiful thing, and this is the one, there's a terrible story of a son throwing away his mother's genealogy boxes because he was moving her to live with him and he didn't have room. (33:05 - 33:20) That just breaks my heart. But I just talk to people about before time slips away, do this. And your kids and your grandkids who don't have room and don't want to deal with your stuff, they don't have to lift a finger or pay a dime. (33:21 - 33:24) You've got it all organized. It's digital. It's safe. (33:24 - 33:36) So that's the piece that comes that you want there. But you get the opportunity to tell your story. And I know we think our kids listened to us telling stories. (33:36 - 34:01) They don't listen very well or they don't remember very well. And maybe you haven't really given your perspective that you have now as you're getting to the end of your life and what you would say to them and how you would guide them. Well, you know, how old should someone be when they consider embarking on a project such as this? My daughter is 21 now. (34:01 - 34:09) She's in college. She was 20 when she did this project. But she dove into family history on her father's side. (34:10 - 34:23) And where she goes to college, there's a lot of that history right there. And she loved it. Her passion for it began with her boyfriend gave her the 23andMe kit, I guess, for Christmas or something. (34:23 - 34:24) The DNA. Right. Yes. (34:24 - 34:40) And she did it and couldn't believe the amount of information that she was able to learn. And so even before that, her paternal grandmother is very interested in the family's history. She's no longer living. (34:40 - 34:51) But she used to talk to my daughter about it. My daughter was more interested than any of the cousins. And so after I read her big report, she did it for a school paper, actually. (34:52 - 35:14) I thought to myself, all right, her grandmother's no longer here. Her great uncle is definitely very knowledgeable about the family history. But of her generation, there's a bunch of cousins, I think she's going to be the one that carries it on for future generations to come. (35:14 - 35:39) But one of the things she really, I mean, she knew this, but it became much more real for her as she did this project is on her father's side, there's, I think, four generations of estrangement. And she was able to pin that back to where it began by getting to know about people. And it just really, yes, became alive for her. (35:39 - 36:03) And she said, Mom, it has to end with me. And so my prayer is that she strengthens her faith through that and that Jesus will work in that. Because truly, Christ is the one who can end these difficulties that we will find as we dive through our family history, the painful parts. (36:03 - 36:22) Christ can come in and heal those. And we may not even really know where they originate from other than all the way back to Adam. But, you know, we can see maybe some patterns in our own families, too, and take that to the Lord and request healing for our family and the future generations. (36:22 - 36:32) AMT – Which is exactly what he says in Deuteronomy 6. It's like, tell the story. What's the story? How God has shown up in your life. How God has done His work. (36:32 - 36:40) That's the story we have to really focus on. But even if she, that's wonderful. I'm so glad to hear someone in her 20s, because that's just great. (36:41 - 36:58) But she needs an account, you know, a permanent storage and start putting in there everything she gathers. Because I found that was who inspired me in my 20s was actually my husband's grandmother giving me stories and background. And it just was exciting. (36:58 - 37:11) But when I interviewed my grandfather, I was probably just hitting 30s, probably. But it would just be dipping in and out during my life. The busyness of life is this, that's the devil at work, I tell you. (37:11 - 37:22) It pulls you away. But basically, that pulled me away at different times. But as I came back, I was ready to hear and put it in position. (37:23 - 37:37) This is the story that has unfolded in our ancestors. This is the story that's important. One of the most common questions I get from people who are struggling is, my story is hard, and I don't know if I should tell it. (37:38 - 37:50) And I just ask them if they think it would be beneficial for their great-grandkids to know. Well, yeah, it might save them having to do this. They have to think forward, not just that it was hard, but it's truth. (37:50 - 38:01) And the Lord showed up, and the Lord did this work. So putting it into perspective, that's the most important story. But it will unfold as you're doing the kind of work that she's doing. (38:01 - 38:06) I love to hear that. That's wonderful. I hope and pray there are many more out there at that age. (38:07 - 38:20) I'm very proud of her. Most of my customers are older. And then on the extreme end of being young, some people don't think about doing this until they're towards the end of their life. (38:20 - 38:38) Exactly. And I think that's, you know, with end-of-life doula work, people are facing the end of their life, terminal illness or advanced in age. And this could be something you do, you know, way before that, but it's not too late. (38:38 - 39:09) You can begin to do something or have, you know, someone, a younger person in your family carry it on for you after you've gotten started. So you offer something called the Family History Boot Camp. You want to share a little bit about what that is and how often you have that, like how can someone get started with that? Well, the best way is to really do what you did is go to my website, which is just www.Candymccune.com and then click on the Boot Camp tab. (39:10 - 39:31) But basically, I found out, I'm working on the marketing as well, but I do teach the Boot Camp, but I found what people needed was just to build that digital home, the structure. They needed to get it done. So I did a quick, like five days, but they're 30-minute interviews, the videos in between. (39:32 - 39:58) Four days are just 30 minutes and the last day is an hour. So you do each day's video and then you take a minute and create what I showed you that day. And what I teach them is just how to structure that account, that permanent storage, so it's ready to receive all of their videos, media, any kind of media, documents, PDFs. (39:58 - 40:19) I even have an Excel spreadsheet, which is my timesheet, putting history in the midst of what's happening with my great-great-grandfather. All of those items can go in there, but we build that home for them to reside in. And by the end of the fifth day, they pretty much are at that place. (40:20 - 40:31) My marketing is starting around. You can go online and there is one set up for January that I will do. And basically, you will build your digital home. (40:31 - 40:50) Your ancestral legacy has a place to live. And his prayer, the man who structured this company, is that it would last longer than 100 years, but he guarantees the 100 years. It's just the hope and prayer is that it goes on for future generations. (40:50 - 40:58) Is he a believer? He is. Wow! And it's called Forever, you said? Forever. Forever.com. Okay. (40:58 - 41:07) And when I looked at your marketing, because I did see it, it's not five days all day. I mean, you are setting a very short day. No. (41:07 - 41:30) The reason I stretch it out is like the very first day, you have to get your pedigree chart written down, ready, because that'll help you build the rest of the week. So that you have to stop, take time, go do your little exercise. But the whole thing, you only spend maybe an hour a day, 30 minutes on my video and 30 minutes of working and doing whatever assignment I gave that day. (41:31 - 41:45) And then the end of it, as a master class, I really show a division and the expectation of what you can do and how you can fill it. But many people stay with me in a membership and want to keep being nurtured. And we need accountability. (41:45 - 41:49) We always need accountability. That word was right on the tip of my tongue. Yes. (41:49 - 41:52) And partner. It's a little bit of a partnership, too. You know, accountability. (41:52 - 42:04) Sometimes we can feel like, hmm, I'm not doing it right. But it's partnership and encouragement. And I see the same thing in my doula training. (42:04 - 42:17) I mean, my program has a lot of reading. And everyone is so happy with the content. If there was any feedback I get is, I need an accountability partner. (42:17 - 42:27) Because life enters in, and I had this great goal. And then all of a sudden, somebody got sick or someone did that. And they say, but you know what? I met so and so. (42:27 - 42:37) And we're both single. And we both have this and this. And just like I shared with you and me seeing all the connections in our life, and that God has brought those two people together. (42:37 - 42:53) And they have really enjoyed keeping one another encouraged and accountable through the program. So it's the same type of thing. And for the doulas particularly, I saw there's a story that I love to share with people from forever. (42:54 - 43:07) But it doesn't matter what stage and age you are in your life. And if someone that they're working with is still capable of speaking or talking, they can record them. The family that's around has their photos. (43:08 - 43:16) They're wanting to pull together their stories and things. They can still do it to whatever extent that they're able to participate. And there may be family members who can help with that. (43:17 - 43:34) But one of the fun things I get to show people, Jack Snyder was a man who fought at Iwo Jima in World War II. My dad was also in World War II, so I really related to him. But in his 80s, he realized he wanted to honor the man who saved his life. (43:35 - 43:49) This man was in the Iwo Jima battle. They were in a confined space, his platoon, and a grenade was thrown into the middle. And this man threw himself on the grenade and saved everybody else. (43:50 - 44:03) But of course he died. And he wanted to honor him. So he tells his story in a public, he made his forever account public so that people could see it and he could tell the story of this man. (44:04 - 44:14) And then in other stories, he's talking and talking about battle and what it was like and his prayer. He said, if you ever saw my eyes closed, I'm praying. And that was it. (44:14 - 44:20) And it was just powerful. It's a powerful story. He's gone, but his story lives on. (44:20 - 44:42) And it's really amazing. So you can do it at any age, but you could do it with, I'm sure he had assistance in doing it as well. The first doula job, you know, like fully hired, I had been working, you know, with people at the end of life or their families after death through my position inside of a church. (44:42 - 45:00) But when I trained to be a doula and went out on my own as a private business, the first woman I ever worked for in a full scope of a project, I was hired for two reasons. One was because I was a Christian. And two was because she was young, 43. (45:01 - 45:15) She had a nine-year-old legacy project, a legacy project of videos. You know, there wasn't time to do anything spectacular. But through my time with her, which was very short, she lived 10 days after I started working with her. (45:16 - 45:34) We've got a bunch of videos recorded. They were in the hospital, but we got them done. And then I was able to find an online, you know, a treasure chest to put all of these on, you know, kind of a vault and create a project for her, you know, in the weeks after she died and present it to the family. (45:35 - 45:39) So there are lots of options. Oh, but you never forget. You just prompted another one that was powerful. (45:41 - 45:52) Yeah. Last year, a friend of mine whose daughter died in her 40s had three children that were, you know, younger too. But still getting to junior high and getting to high school level. (45:52 - 46:04) But basically, one of the sons said to their grandmother, my friend, I'm forgetting my mom. It had been six years. And he said, I don't want to forget my mom. (46:04 - 46:18) So they gave me all the photos they had taken that went through her burial. They did a very special memory time with her. And she had post-it notes with her wisdom and various things and a ton. (46:18 - 46:34) So they gave me the stories, the photos the whole night. We did a photo book of her life and through the end of life. And he now is a young man, and he's just thrilled because he said, you helped me remember my mother. (46:35 - 46:40) So that's an important piece. All three of the kids, actually, she made books. She had a book for each of them. (46:41 - 46:45) You can do it at any stage at any time. Yes, you can. Oh, my goodness. (46:46 - 46:58) Well, we're going to wrap up a little bit. Two remaining things I'm curious about. But one, I just want you to share a little bit about, you've been a doula. (46:58 - 47:07) You didn't know you were a doula. I didn't know I was. You shared with me, you know, an experience you had. (47:07 - 47:24) And so I would, and you said, I'm actually glad to know now what an end of life doula is, because you could really see how you filled that role for some friends. So would you spend a little bit of time telling us more about that? Sure. It's sort of like I talk about family historians. (47:24 - 47:36) Is family historian by choice or by chance? I became a doula by chance. Being an attorney, I was in church with these three ladies. They were all what you would call old maids. (47:36 - 47:41) They'd never been married. They were not related. But one was a school teacher. (47:41 - 47:46) The other was a school nurse. They got to be friends. And one of them led the other to the Lord. (47:46 - 47:59) And the third person was a missionary who came home broken and had nowhere to be. And they took her in. So these three ladies had lived together for probably 50 years, but I knew them through church. (47:59 - 48:07) And they asked me, would you be the third trustee? We're getting our wills and trusts done and all this stuff. Oh, sure. Whatever. (48:07 - 48:12) Sure. They put my name down as third. And at that time, they were active in church and whatever. (48:12 - 48:24) I didn't think anything more. We stayed in touch even after they did go to an independent living that was across town and they weren't at church as much. I would go have lunch with them maybe once a year. (48:25 - 48:38) Then I got the phone call that said, I see your name in the folder. Who are you? I went, okay. And I found out that the youngest one was in dementia so severe that she could not live in independent living again. (48:38 - 48:53) And another, the second one had fallen and broken her hip and would not be released until she went to assisted living. She had to be in assisted living. So the first in the list was the attorney and he had dementia and closed his office. (48:54 - 48:57) The second in the list was a bank. They no longer existed. So here was Candy. (48:58 - 49:13) So Candy stepped in. Thankfully, there was another lady whose parents were in their independent living and she helped people with computer programs and knew these ladies and these ladies loved her. She helped me. (49:13 - 49:16) I will give her credit. She was younger and stronger. I was at 70. (49:17 - 49:36) So basically, I had to move them out of their three apartments joined together, a quarter level full place into an assisted living place. But their Christian life, they never fought once. I can just tell you, they were beautiful. (49:37 - 49:46) It was my privilege. Hard work, yes. Six days a week took us for six weeks, actually, to get that place cleaned out. (49:46 - 49:53) Their stuff dealt with. They didn't have family. One of them had some distant family, but it was hard. (49:53 - 50:00) And there were times I was just, wow, struggling. But we got through all of that. And they had great talks. (50:00 - 50:14) We had great discussions. The one example, when they were in assisted living, I found, I said, ladies, I found two deeds of funeral plots, but only two. And then the youngest one spoke up. (50:14 - 50:23) She said, oh, I don't have one. And of course, immediately another one said, oh, well, I want to be cremated and scattered along the Colorado Trail. So you can have mine. (50:23 - 50:34) And they were just fighting over giving each other the burial plots. And I said, no, no, you just talk to me about what you want, and they all wanted to be cremated. I said, let me go talk to the funeral home. (50:35 - 50:51) We found out that we could bury three people in a double plot, and I got a headstone made for them that was a double plot headstone in the end. So that's an example of everything we went through, every problem we went through, that's how they settled it. Let me be more generous. (50:51 - 50:59) Let me care about you. They were Godly women that loved each other deeply. So one by one, the youngest did actually go first. (51:00 - 51:14) She was the one who did, but it was after they had been moved to skilled living, which is more like a hospital room, as you know. And so by then we really had to pare down their stuff. So I made them big posters with their pictures on them, the pictures through their life. (51:15 - 51:30) And we would occasionally talk about those pictures and those stories. So finally, as they all left one by one, I structured their funerals. I went through contacting people and putting together the people from church. (51:30 - 51:48) But basically, and the last one was the beauty of seeing those three urns in the one strip they put into the ground. And their headstone says, Friends Forever. And it's one of the beautiful things in my life to have been able to serve them. (51:48 - 52:00) It just makes me tear up to think about that. We're still finishing the last of the probate. People were going longer than anything, but I was able to serve and work with their attorney to get everything done. (52:00 - 52:13) And we're just finally going to wrap it up by the end of this year. But they have more than once looked at me and said, What would we do without you? I said, The Lord gave me this, you know, He really did. So it was beautiful. (52:13 - 52:22) So I love what you do. They were lost without that. Well, end-of-life doulas really can do the heavy lifting that is overwhelming for families. (52:22 - 52:45) You know, you don't need, as I said from the beginning, you don't need a legal degree or, you know, that's not your scope of practice as an end-of-life doula. But there are so many parts of the end-of-life process that is overwhelming for families or there's not family there to, you know, to facilitate these needs. And the doula is really perfect for that. (52:45 - 53:03) And because we're here to serve and be compassionate, be the hands and feet of Jesus. As a Christian end-of-life doula, my training program is the Death and Resurrection doula training program, because I believe that we must have hope. And our hope is in the resurrection of Jesus Christ. (53:03 - 53:18) And so those three ladies, friends forever, when Christ returns and they're raised from their graves, they will be transformed into new bodies and live forever. I love picturing them dancing in heaven today. It's together. (53:18 - 53:30) I would just know that's where they are and having a beautiful time together. Amazing. Well, I'm going to take our last two points and kind of pull them together into one for closing for the sake of time. (53:30 - 53:46) But so you are a relational coach, you know, Christian conciliation. You are also a fine preserver of legacy and a coach to help people do that as well. So maybe you could give me two points. (53:47 - 54:11) One is a step. If someone is in estrangement, but they feel the Lord working there, you know, what is a step that they could take maybe to bridge a gap? And then also if they maybe feel the Lord tugging at their heart to get started on a legacy project, like what's the first step? Maybe the boot camp. Right, it's true. (54:11 - 54:22) Yeah, I'll start with that one. That is the family history focus because you really should just say, I make a commitment. You really have to decide to do it. (54:22 - 54:45) And it's because of that busyness and overwhelm because it will try to kick you off the track that you're on. But just think about how you can help them preserve their milestones, the stories, the picture of their life and how that will impact two, three generations down the road. Their personal memories are invaluable and they will die with them. (54:46 - 55:04) So if there's a way to communicate those, capture that way. And I would say, yes, learn the structure through boot camp of how to put all of their stuff in a permanent storage, a whole digital home for them. There is a free version of the permanent storage so you can learn it. (55:04 - 55:21) And if every doula knew how to do it, you could quickly put together a program for each one and get their basics. It will not take up that much space so it can be a smaller kind of storage, but start entering their stories. And if there's a way for them to look at a photo, I just did. (55:21 - 55:39) My friend is turning, she's 92, but I did her story at 90. And as soon as I would show her a picture, she would just start talking and I just started recording. And that's where I got her stories and was able to put them into a photo book that she could approve and look at and add to before and she's still alive. (55:39 - 56:01) So this is a great thing to do for them. But to find the family, if you have family that will participate with you, help them because there's a way for these permanent storage accounts to be shared easily and different people, a whole family can contribute to it just by themselves. So it's really, really a great way to do it. (56:02 - 56:22) So first boot camp, learn it, and then you can apply it to the people you serve. The relational focus, that question is a lot more difficult because you got to find out what the Lord's doing. If He is bringing family together, helping them have constructive conversations is really important. (56:22 - 56:56) But the very first thing, I would recommend a website to you, which is Kin Sandy's present website, Relational Wisdom. It is that, www.rw360.org, I would go to that website. He has a ton of free articles, free information, he says share it, get on his blog, it helps with relational work. (56:56 - 57:13) Any kind that you're doing. But the other is that he's got a couple of free courses that you can ask for a coupon to make it free for you. And these are courses teaching you just relational basics, relational wisdom in a basic format, and they're excellent. (57:13 - 57:25) Every time I teach this information, I give people that recommendation to go and do those courses. They'll just help you with how to do it. The very first thing you do is humble yourself. (57:26 - 57:59) Okay, Lord, I know I'm in this for a reason too, teach me, but what is it that you're trying to teach us? What is it you're trying to accomplish? And then helping them recognize, not tell them, when you tell people what's wrong, their defenses go up and they can tell you why it's not right. That's no, no, you got it wrong. But basically help them recognize, walk them through discovering for themselves what they can do to bring peace, to bring a relationship back, to impact the situation. (58:00 - 58:09) And that that is something that the Lord requires. If they're a Christian, you can certainly use the scripture. There's so much available for that as well. (58:09 - 58:15) But Ken's website on relational wisdom is a very good resource. Yeah. Fantastic. (58:16 - 58:22) I really enjoyed this conversation, Candy. I knew I would. I knew we'd pick up for hours. (58:23 - 58:31) Thank you for giving me an hour of your time this morning. Oh, thank you. And I look forward to staying connected. (58:31 - 58:48) And another thing we talked about is you coming to the Fellowship Café, my international Fellowship Café, and people can join on Zoom and ask you some questions. So I will send out some marketing about that and keep everyone posted. But we're going to do that soon. (58:49 - 58:59) And I just, again, so grateful that you're here to share with us. And I look forward to continuing to see our ministries grow. My privilege to be here. (58:59 - 59:05) And I'm so thrilled to learn about your ministry. That's kudos to you all. Yeah, great. (59:05 - 59:14) Well, Candy's information, how to contact her and to learn more about her is in the description. So thanks for joining us. Thank you.