Faith That Endures

(0:00 - 5:43) Okay, well here we are. It is Thursday, November 6th, and this is our evening International Fellowship Cafe, the first Thursday of every month. We have an evening cafe. We also have a cafe every Monday at 1 p.m. Eastern Standard Time, but that doesn't work for everyone if you're at work and that's not your lunch break. So I started a Thursday night cafe and the theme behind it is healing. And so when I reached out to Lydia and Jeanette and Taylana, who are either training in the Death and Resurrection Dual Training Program or they've been through the program. Lydia just finished this week. Jeanette has been finished for a few months and has already worked with someone since she's finished her certification and she did an amazing job of service. And when I spoke with them about finding a time where we could share our stories, the evening cafe was a better time. So here we are. And I'm so thankful to the three of you for being excited about this. I'm very excited about this. And so if no one's guessed yet, this is a special night of sharing stories of African American women and faith. And so my prayer for this endeavor is that we might learn things about you that we don't know. You'll learn things about one another. I have gotten to know you each through training, but I know there's so many parts of your story that I am unfamiliar with. So I'm really excited and I know that you will touch the lives of many people through sharing what your experience is and being in the United States and being African American women and being in love with Jesus. So I can't wait to hear you and what you've pulled together for tonight. So thank you so much. And so Lydia, we're going to start with you. And there's not a hard time on this. We discussed about eight minutes or so, but I'll keep an eye on the time to a degree so we make sure that we get some time to also ask questions and visit a little bit at the end. So thank you. Well, good afternoon, everybody. My name is Lydia Chan. And as Lori said, I just completed last week. And I'm trying to keep this very short to tell my story so everybody can have a chance. And I just want to speak a little bit about my faith journey and how it has strengthened my faith. And one of my favorite songs that I listen to that gives me hope is God's Grace. It's by Luther Barnes. I don't know if you're familiar with him, but he's an artist, black artist, and he is from my hometown. So I kind of know him and I just love this song. And my story starts, well, my mother was diagnosed with dementia probably in about 2000 or so. And it was pretty new. So we did not have any idea of how it was going to affect our lives. So it started out with her just forgetting little things, misplacing things. And eventually it just was all out of control. At that time, I was already living here in Atlanta. I'm from North Carolina, Rocky Mount. Marriage, my child, career, and all of that. So I reached out and saw everything happening, but I became so angry. And I was angry. I was like, why does my mother have to do this? My mother is just the sweetest. So why does she have to go through this? Why do I have to go with this? And I was also angry with God. And just to give a little background, I was the first child, the only daughter, the first grandchild on both sides, first girl cousins. It's not but boys. So because of that, I think my mother raised me to have so much responsibility. So I guess that's why it was for me to do that. I used to always say, Mother, I want a sister. And she used to always say, I'm going to be your mother and your sister. So with that, we bonded. And as we got older, we had a very good relationship. But as the dementia continued and started progressing, my dad was kind of breadwinner. Even though my mother worked and had her own business, my dad was kind of like breadwinner. And my mother paid all the bills. So eventually, she was not able to do that. And my dad was supposed to be taken over. And everything just got messed up. For some reason, he took out a second mortgage. I mean, the house was paid. They built the house themselves. He did this. So one day, he's called to me, said that he didn't tell me anything going on before how he was struggling. So one day, he just called me and said, they called me, Janine. Janine, I need like $8,000. Like what? You know, I don't have that. So I'm trying to find out what's going on. He said, no, just send me the money. It's going to be fine. (5:44 - 8:21) So me, I'm a person, when I don't know, I'm a dig and I'm a research. And I kept looking, and I found out the house was not in his name yet, lost the house. So therefore, I had to find out what I'm going to do next. So I decided that I would just have to bring them here. That was just so very, very difficult trying to get her here. Because at the time, I didn't know when I took her out of her environment, it caused the disease to get worse because nothing was comfortable for her. So when I finally got her here, it was very, very, very difficult. So I was trying to call her doctors to see if we could get medication. And they said, well, no, she's not here no more. So you have to do someone else. So I'm calling all these doctors. No, we're not taking new patients. It'll be five months. It was just everything. And so I just sit there and I just actually just cry because I didn't know what to do. I didn't know who to turn to. But God, one of my friends just happened to call me and say, Lydia, you're my mom, you're okay. And I was like, she said, okay, I'm on my way over. So she came over and I told her what was going on. As God has it, one of her friends was a doctor. So we was able to get an appointment and get my mother in right then. And I know that was just God. It was just God. It was no other way. And we talked to someone about also getting some type of assistance or so. So I reached out to the lady and told her what was going on. She said, oh, it's nothing we can do. I mean, I can't help you. I was all upset. But God, in about 10 minutes, she called back. Her name was Sarah. I'll never forget her. And she was like, Lydia, I felt your spirit. I feel your pain. She said, you know what? I'm gonna make an appointment and we're gonna talk. And she came over that day and she got a caregiver to come every, I mean, four days a week. She got some type of grant and she was the one who said, you need to go to school. Clayton State has a program for dementia. So you need to go so you can learn. So I said, okay, that I would go. But in the meantime, because the medicine hadn't kicked in, it was just awful. And I just said, was still angry like, God, why me? Why me? And then I thought about it, that God gave his only son who died on the cross and he was crucified and all of that. (8:21 - 18:59) So they are perfect. So if they're perfect, you can do this. So again, my song and that's kind of how we moved forward. And like I said, it was very, very hard. The struggle was this difficult, but we were able to kind of move through things. In the end, she lived about eight years with the dementia. We ended up having to put her in a nursing facility. At the end, she was bedridden and she had stopped speaking and she wasn't doing anything. One thing about it, she didn't get any bed sores or anything like that. And probably about two years, we were able to get hospice. And that was like my best friend because they helped me with so many different things and kind of walked me through the process. And like I said, again, it was God's grace and mercy just got me there. And at the end when she was transitioning, they had called me in and they had told me this before, but she didn't transition. But this time when they called me in, I heard the death rattle that we talked about in class. My mother also had always told me about that. So when I heard that, I knew it was the end. And everyone always said that with the dementia person, once it comes to the end, they will be able to talk and hold a conversation, which I know now is the rally. So I'm just there, I'm just there, just waiting, just waiting. I just want to talk to her and speak to her one more time. But that didn't happen. And they was kind of telling me, go get a break, go get a break. And as soon as I left and I know she was waiting, that's when she transitioned. And when I came back, she looked so beautiful and peaceful. So I know that was the best thing for her. And through all of this, if I had to do it again, I would do it. I'm still taking care of now my father, and it's going on 17 years in March. And still it's difficult, but it has increased my faith to let me know that God is with me because it's no way, it's no way. It's just so many stories and so many struggles, and it's no way I could have did it without my faith. And God has blessed me in so many ways. And sometimes I just sit back and thank you. And that's all I'm going to say. I don't want to take up your time, but God, God's grace. Wow, Lydia. Oh my, you were right on time, right on time. So I don't know if you wrote that and rehearsed it. Wow, thank you for sharing that. And I, you know, something I hear in your story is, and I've said it in training before, and I think I'm sharing this so we can take this out with us as we practice our end-of-life doula work, but God has made a way in Jesus Christ. We can believe He will make a way through the hardships of dementia and caregiving and the end-of-life needs that every single person's going to need. So if we look to Christ and what He did on the cross, we can believe God's promises that He will care for us and all of these details that need to be worked out. That was really great. Thank you. All right. So, so Taylana, are you, are you ready? No, but I'll go. You're going to do great. I did. I tried to write something down, but, so I'm just going to wing it. Let the spirit lead you. So both of my parents have died. My dad died in 2002 and he had cancer. He had lung cancer and he was given, in February of that year, he was given five months to live, but his first grandchild and his only granddaughter at the time had gotten pregnant. And so he died almost a year later. And the story for me in that during, during that time, it was like the worst year of my life. I ended up getting like sustaining an injury at work. And so I was trying to deal with my dad dying and this work thing. And there's feeling really bad about crying and being all upset what was happening at work because my boss's boss or whatever was trying to get me fired and all this stuff. And with my dad, I, I feel like I had, I kind of had to come to was coming to terms with my own mortality during that year because I was so stressed out that I didn't get a lot of sleep. And in my chest, it was like a hard rock. And one of the only, the only time I could really sleep was near the end with my dad. I had started taking, leaving early on Wednesdays and give my mom some time to just do something because she was his caregiver. And I would lay there next to him and hold his hand and we would both fall asleep. And that was like one of the most really peaceful times for me, which just, and he was not, he was a man of few words. And so just laying there and holding his hand. And he was so cute because he was like, he's like tapping me. He goes, be strong like me. He had no idea what I was going through. And it was just, you know and I really don't like when I made it to 2003, I was completely shocked. He literally died on December 31st around four o'clock. And when I made it to 2003, I was shocked because the burden of watching my dad deteriorate and then dealing with the injury that I had and then also dealing with a person who was literally trying to get me fired and dealing with all of that. And my faith, I don't even know. I don't even know where my, I don't even know where my faith was because it was at a time where I had a lot of faith. And when it happened, everybody around me, they were crying and they were so upset. And I just, I kind of had a peace. You know, I was upset of course, and I was a daddy's girl. So they thought I was the one who was going to be crying. They thought I was the one who was going to lose it. And in some ways I feel like I did because about 20 years after he passed away, I realized him dying changed my life because I used to sit next to him at family meals. Nobody, everybody knew not to sit there. And I didn't know that I did this. I'd done this for decades. I didn't know that I did that because after he, we would have family events and I didn't know where to sit. I just felt so lost. And I was doing some things. I was taking dance classes at the time and I was crying during the dance classes and I couldn't take it. I can't take another dance class now because of that. So I just, and I sat back and I thought about where my life was headed and where it went. It completely changed after he died. And my mom, she died in 2019. It's really bizarre. Like January 27th slash the 28th because she's in California and I was on the phone with my sister. It was the 27th there, but it was the 28th here. And so I saw her, so she had a lot of, both parents were believers. They believed in God and worshiped God and everything. My dad came to the faith later. My mom had come to the faith. I grew up in church, so I grew up with her being very faithful. And it was really hard to watch her because, so I went to go see her around her 80th birthday. She was the first child out of like nine kids to make it to 80. And then she has two younger sisters and they'll make it to 80. So I went to see her for her 80th birthday. She had gone into remission for stomach cancer, but had come back, but she also had a tumor. And when I left in October and two weeks later, they told us to make her comfortable. And so I went back and I saw her again in December. And at the time, she was not ready. And it was really hard to watch her. It was hard to watch her not have faith because she was crying, saying she didn't want to go. And I was encouraging her based on, I was the one who was encouraging her and telling her to trust God. So I guess for me, I was having that faith for her. And I don't know where she was when she finally died because I wasn't there. And I do have a regret that I wasn't on the phone with my sister. I didn't really have a lot of minutes, but I wasn't on the phone with my sister to be there with her because she was with my mom's sisters and then by herself, kind of a thing. And when I think about my faith through all of this, I feel like with my mom, I had more faith. (19:00 - 21:32) You know, obviously I grieved, but I feel like there was peace again, I guess. How do I explain this? I guess the only thing I can say is peace. I don't know what other word to use other than peace. Like when I would talk to my sister and how she felt, I didn't understand why she was feeling the way she did because I didn't feel that way. But the peace was greater when my mom died because I was a lot older than when my dad died. So I've been able to practice the faith longer. And it takes me about four years to really feel more settled, like the crying and any pain that I have goes away. And like with my dad, I had started the morning before he died because we had a lot more time. So I started dealing with it and accepting, processing it and processing the fact that he was going to go. And with my mom, I didn't really have that time, but I had a distance and distance really kind of made it feel so different because I wasn't around her as much. I mean, we were talking on the phone all the time, but I couldn't, you know, that like that last month I was talking to her less and less because they were, every time I called, they said she was not available or sleeping or something. Um, so it did feel kind of different being, um, not in the same city. And I didn't really, um, I was in a different, uh, church community, you know, being a different state and everything then, um, for both parents. And I didn't really communicate much of any of this with anybody that, um, in my church community. That you did a fantastic job. Thank you for, for being willing to share and off the cuff can be just as powerful as something you planned out. So, and you were, yeah, you were right, right at the timeframe that we talked about. So you, you did, you did a great job. (21:32 - 22:45) Yeah. I thought about it a lot over the time to what to say. And I tried to write something out, but it was just really hard. Cause I don't know. It's just really hard because it was such a long time ago, especially for my dad. It was such a long time ago that it was just really, Oh, and I forgot to mention with my mom, I also was going through my own trials. It was also the worst time of my life outside of her, you know, uh, dying too. Um, I was that year in 2019, cause she was January that whole year. It was rough personal life outside of that. So it just, it was, I also found that kind of interesting that both times that both times when my parents were dying, I was also going through something of my own outside of that on top of it, which was real, which made it very difficult, made it, made it difficult. Um, when my mom, it started in, my thing started in January and then she died a few weeks later. And then, um, my, um, and then that year, that whole year was very rough for me. (22:46 - 24:10) Hmm. So the mourning and grieving on top of it, but, but when it came to her, I feel like I had like peace, I guess. Peace. Yeah. Well, you know, I personally, I've felt this and I've, I've, you know, read it in theology. So I do believe it's true, but you know, even when we feel like our faith or, you know, maybe someone else is suffering and they don't feel attached to their faith that they have in other times in their life, it doesn't mean that it's, it's not there. And, you know, the Bible tells us, God, he's the one who, you know, he's the author of our faith and he's given us our faith. And even if, you know, we're in a season that we were doubting more, um, that God is still certainly at work and not, and our, our faith is, may still be strong, even if we, you know, aren't in touch with it so much. But, but wow, that's, you've really had kind of like the pendulum experience with, um, with your parents dying and, and, and I don't know your age, but I am a little bit surprised to know that both, both your parents are gone. You know, you, you know, I mean, I know that's very, that must be very hard, um, to, to be without, you know, at least, at least one parent. Yeah. Well, I'm so much more to the story, but yeah. (24:10 - 35:11) Yeah. Well, well, there's not tons of time, but I appreciate you sharing that little bit and, um, and it helps us get to know you a little bit better. And, um, I'm, I'm, I'm really glad you're in the training program and you, yes, you will see people who, you know, their children live in California, right? You live in Richmond, but they're, they're, you know, in Richmond at the end of their life and their children are in California perhaps. And, um, it's, it, the, you will fully understand what that's like as much as, you know, helping families when, um, they live close by. So God's given you, you good experience and, um, you'll do great. Thank you. All right, Jeanette, thanks for waiting and, um, being the third story share tonight. So glad you're here and you're, I love it when you wear your hair like that. Well, good evening, everyone. My name is Jeanette Corley and, uh, I'm going to be sharing, um, a little bit, uh, this evening about my, uh, my beloved Lloyd. Uh, Lloyd is, um, my firstborn, um, first of two children. Um, and he was 39 years old when he, um, died. I say died. Thank you for that,Laurel, because I typically say passed away. Um, and I guess, you know, I'm, I'm like most mothers, I thought and think that, you know, my children are special and Lloyd was really special because, um, I think particularly as a male and an African American male, you know, even as a young child, he was very sensitive right up into his adulthood. Um, and I held both of my children extremely close. Um, and I guess recently I learned that that's called helicopter parenting. Um, but at any rate, um, I held them both very close. And so, uh, naturally when it was time for Lloyd to, to leave for college, he was good and ready to get from up under his mom's wings. And so we, uh, you know, released him and was excited about him starting that, um, adventure and new portion of his, um, of his life. And then of course, Thanksgiving came. And so he came back home for Thanksgiving and, uh, he and his friends, um, went out on Thanksgiving evening and I sent him out with a curfew as to what time to, to be back home. And, uh, two o'clock AM came and three o'clock AM came. And, uh, then I got this, you know, the dreaded call that, you know, every parent, every parent's nightmare. Um, and what happened was that Lloyd and, uh, some friends, there were three other young men that were in the vehicle that Lloyd was driving. Um, he was involved in an automobile crash, um, hit by a drunk driver. Um, and just to sort of kind of give you an idea as to the impact, one of his friends that was sitting in the back seat, I'm sure this young man was well over, um, 200, excuse me, pounds was thrown out of the vehicle. Uh, but as it turned out, Lloyd was the one that suffered the greatest injury. He, um, sustained a traumatic brain injury, which, um, resulted in him being in a comatose state for all of two weeks. Um, he spent about approximately two months in the hospital, um, another two months in outpatient, um, rehab. It was really, really a, a challenging season. And, uh, I, uh, can almost in my mind's eye go back to just going into the chapel while he was in the hospital, just pleading for my son's life. Um, and so we walked through those four or five months and the doctors pretty much told me that I needed to prepare myself, um, to be a full-time mom, that he would be wholly dependent upon me for the rest of his life. And I just, I, I've just refused to, to receive that, uh, report. And so, um, as I said, five months into the rehab process, he, he came home, um, but life was very different. And, uh, for all intents and purposes, on some level, I lost the son that I sent off to college. I mean, there was, uh, you know, you could clearly see the, um, difference in terms of his physicality relative to his walking gait. Um, there was a bit of a speech impediment, um, but the biggest hit was that, you know, there was a cognitive deficiency. And so, you know, I, I can't even articulate the words in terms of the struggle because, you know, here in just a moment, you know, uh, life had changed. He had finally gotten his freedom and was able to get from up under his mom and then, uh, the shift. And, you know, so, you know, in the early stages, you know, there were, there were bouts of depression and there were questions about, you know, why me? I mean, was he a perfect kid? No, he was, um, a believer, walked out his faith and just could not rationalize, um, why this happened to him. And so it was, uh, you know, the first, first few years was really tough. I mean, young people, as we know, you know, at 19, they're in the process of, you know, learning how to adult and make new friends. But for him that looked very different in that, you know, friends, his friends, you know, prior to the crash sort of kind of dropped off the scene because they did not know how to cope with, you know, the new Lloyd and physically Lloyd couldn't do the things that he did prior to in terms of playing basketball and just so many things that we sort of kind of take for granted. And so, um, hard, really, really, really hard and very difficult time for him, most importantly, but also, um, just trying to come alongside to, to support in a timeframe where, you know, you should be discovering and sort of kind of, you know, uh, exploring all the adventures that comes with moving into adulthood. But over a period of time, there was some progression and we were, uh, able to, uh, get, he was able to get employment at the church that we were attending. And that led to, um, uh, additional employment that came after that. Uh, and so then the next step was, okay, now we can work toward getting him into, uh, his own apartment. Um, and thanks be to God, we were able to do that. But again, because of the cognitive deficiencies, it did not come without many, many challenges. And there's a whole lot of life, if you will, that, um, happened in between. And as I said, because, um, coping, um, the loss of who he was and what he was left with was very difficult for him. And so, uh, he began to use marijuana as a coping mechanism and, uh, you know, medical community had clearly indicated to us that, uh, a TBI in marijuana does not, doesn't mix. Um, and so we're talking probably the last five years of his life, there was just this continual decline and progression in terms of his ability to just cope with life, um, in terms of just on any number of levels, physically, emotionally, intellectually, it just was hard, but he just, he kept, he kept on pressing and he kept saying to me, Mom, like, what, what's, what's my purpose? Um, and you know, I would just always come back and say, you got to, you know, plow in, in terms of your relationship with God and, you know, figure out, um, what that looks like, um, in terms of, you know, what the Lord says to you, because I can't tell you what, uh, your purpose is. Um, and so I want to say probably the last two to three years, there were, um, there were more instances of his just being, um, I guess physically tired, physically and mentally tired of the battle. And as I look back on it in hindsight, I mean, I, I, I pleaded for God, um, for my son's life and he was gracious enough to, you know, answer my prayer, but it was at the cost of Lloyd in that he, he had some, had some good moments, but I would say that, you know, the better time, the better part of his 20 years was a huge struggle. Um, and so as God would have it, um, probably the last couple of years or so, uh, in a strange relationship with my ex-husband had been rekindled and he started reconnecting with his, with his dad. And so on, um, one particular Friday night, Susan, he had called me and said, you know, he was at his, um, his dad's home and, uh, he would be spending the night there and shared, you know, uh, you know, some other things. And so the following day, which was a Saturday, um, I was on my way home from church, a church event. And while I was driving home, I got a phone call and the gentleman identified himself, um, as a detective. And when he said that he was a detective, there was just something in my spirit that knew my son had transitioned. And, um, you know, the report that came back to me was, you know, after he left his dad's house, he went over to, um, meet some friends and, uh, he laid down and he simply went to sleep. Now, mind you, Lloyd was hypertensive and, you know, stopped taking, uh, his medicine. (35:12 - 38:41) But when I look back on just the, um, the, of God's, um, mercy in terms of allowing him to rekindle the relationship with his dad. And then, um, in the, in the instance of, you know, that particular time where, um, he laid down and went to sleep and just went as I, as I perceive it to be in the presence of the Lord. It is just for me, such a solace as much as it, it pained me because I saw the struggle that, you know, he suffered over those 20 years. I can't help but appreciate the mercy of God in that he allowed him to rekindle this relationship with his biological dad. And because he said 20 years of walking through what he walked through was enough. He allowed his transition to be so sweet that he allowed him just to go, um, to sleep. And so watching the losses that, um, my, my, my, my son suffered and the loss of, of, of losing him, um, reminds me of one of my favorite songs, like, uh, you'd mentioned Lydia and that's Sovereign. And so it became real to me, um, that part of my faith journey has been developed in surrendering to the sovereignty of God. Um, and then recognizing once again, that our faith oftentimes is formed and developed by our pain and our losses, um, and, and losing Lloyd and seeing that all that he went through over those 20 years that much sacrifice, um, to himself absolutely developed and grew my, and is still growing, uh, my faith. And I didn't see it in the moment because it wasn't mine to, I think, reveal that to Lloyd. But again, in hindsight, excuse me, there was a recognition that while he was, you know, plowing through his struggle and plowing through his pain and questioning, like, what is my purpose? You know, when there's all of this concern about other people's perceptions of him and trying to do life, that what really was his purpose was the fact that he walked the journey in such a way that he kept pushing through the struggle because there was a spirit of evangelism on his life. And he, I mean, he really touched a lot of folks just because of the way he was hardwired in his temperament. And so even in his highs and his lows, um, there was just such a witness of, um, there was such a witness of what it looks like to keep plowing even in the midst of, of your struggle. And so, um, yeah, the, the, the faith journey has, um, just solidified that the portal, um, the crucible, the means by which we, um, come to grow our faith, you know, while we perhaps might choose otherwise, it is pain, it's loss, it's struggle. And, um, so yeah, that's our, that's our story. (38:42 - 40:31) Can't hear you,Laurel. Thank you. Um, I knew you had lost your son and, um, recall reading a little bit of the story and, uh, and one of the lesson learned, but since they're anonymous, I never was able to fully put it together and know that, um, that that was your son. So thank you for, for sharing that and for the, the wisdom you've given us is that it is, it's through suffering that, that we come to know God and his grace. Um, thank you. I, I, I was able to record every word you said, Jeanette, but your, um, picture went away. And so I don't know why, if there's something on your end, you can, you can look at, but every word you said was, was clear and, um, I could hear you. And so I'm grateful that, that you're, you're, it was all caught on recording, but I don't know, I can't see you anymore. So I just wanted to let you know that. And I want to invite everybody to turn your camera on. If you'd like to, you'll, um, show up on the screen now and we can fellowship and Oh, you're back Jeanette. Wonderful. Um, we can fellowship. You can talk, um, with, with Lydia, Taylana and Jeanette, um, and a little bit more about their stories, but thank you for being brave and being willing to share, um, some sensitive, but the most special parts of your life with us. One thing I love about the death and resurrection dual training program is that everybody's story is really, really special because of what God has done and Jesus. (40:31 - 40:52) So thank you. Hey Donna, I saw you had your hand up. Oh, I was clapping for that. What a beautiful three stories. Thank you ladies. You captured my heart. They were all different yet. They're similar and, and that you all struggled and it increased your faith in God. You relied on him. (40:52 - 41:40) He answered your prayers, not always exactly as we expect, but you persevered and he is close to the broken hearted. And I'm sure you felt that during those times. So thank you so much for being transparent and opening your hearts and it touched all of us. And, uh, I'll learn from your stories. Thank you. Does anybody have any, any, any questions? I mean, I have to have a question or comment. I'm going to start listening to Luther Barnes tonight. I'm a musician lady yet. So I got to check out. I just found him on, on Spotify. So please do that song. God's grace. (41:40 - 44:40) Please do. Let me know what you think. I will. Can I just say, can I just say something really quick? I thought it was very interesting. All of you, you know, I, the reason why I met my wife, some of you know, is because of the struggle of my mother transitioning from where she was at into a nursing home. And now she's in a state run facility here. She was in New Jersey and now she's in a state run facility down in Stanton, Virginia. And, um, you know, there's so many unexpected things. I heard Lydia talking about, you know, just finding out that her father owned the house that he didn't own anymore. And, you know, you, you have to take on so much responsibility, um, in all of these situations. And then, uh, Telana with, um, you know, I wanted to know from Telana, did you feel like that just, you, you said you were going through trials at both times when you lost both parents, did you feel like that was a distraction, like a major distraction for you from like grieving or anything like that? No, I literally, I'm a type of person that feels what I feel. I will feel it. I don't, I don't, um, work. I don't, um, stay busy so that I don't feel something. And if I feel something and it makes me cry, I mean, a year after my mom died, um, a coworker said, Oh, how was your New Year's? I literally left the room in tears. Um, so I will, and when my dad was dying, I would just sit there and I'd get up and I'd walk out cause I would be crying. Um, so I feel what I feel. So I felt it all. I felt, um, so in the beginning when they told us it was February, um, like a few, a few, a few days before my birthday, actually, they, they, I found out he had five months live. And I remember maybe a couple of months later, I realized I had to start accepting it. Um, which really helped. So when he did die and like I said, it takes about four, it took me about four years. It was like a little over three years because I started the process. And I think that's why it was a little easier for me to deal with, um, deal with everything when he did actually die. And the rest of my family, they were so distraught when it happened. And I'm like, looking at them like, what's wrong with you guys? Because I had already started the process and they didn't start, my sister like didn't really start accepting it, what was happening to maybe a few days before it happened. So yeah. (44:41 - 48:27) I was the same way with my father. When my father died, some of my relatives got mad at me because I didn't grieve. And then it's six months later, I was just like you, I came home, I went downstairs into the basement of my house and I walked into, he had a little shop. I walked into his shop and I said, hi dad. And I realized he wasn't there. And I burst into tears and my mother came up, my mother came home and she found me on the couch and she said the couch was just soaked with tears because you know, I hadn't, but that was a time that it just kind of hit me. So one thing that was also interesting with my dad, he died on a Tuesday and every Tuesday for three to four weeks, I would be really sad. And it took about three weeks before I realized why. You said you had growth of faith though during those times. And it's kind of interesting because that's that perfect piece that God talks about. Not that I'm trying to elevate your thinking, but you were experiencing that peace during those times. Part of it's because I actually lived. I really thought I was going to die. I thought I was going to die before him. Wow. Wow. That's amazing. Your voice, you're not. Yeah. Those are great questions, Ed. I did have a question and now I don't remember what it, what it was, but I want to say something really that I hear Taylana says, you weren't in denial. And you, you were able to accept what is, and it made your journey. It didn't remove your grief, but it, it made you present with your grief. And now you say that it makes me think that's where my faith was then. Yeah. I had the faith to not be in denial. Absolutely. Yeah. Wow. I like your cat. Oh my gosh. He was like sitting on the back. Yeah. I'm trying to move my computer so she can sit on my lap now. Oh, I remembered my question. So Lydia, Taylana and Jeanette, how about like support? Did you feel that people were able to support you after Lydia, your mom, Taylana, mom and dad, Jeanette with your son? How did you feel supported? Was, was there enough, or do you wish that people had been able to companion you in your, in your mourning a little bit more? Um, I don't really believe that I got a lot of support, uh, maybe from my church sometimes, but not a lot because I didn't disclose a lot, but that's why now I can kind of feel people's spirit and I want to be there and I try to help them because you do need some support. Yeah. You, you need some downtown. So I try to do that myself. That's good. Yeah. I think sometimes people would like, they don't want to ask for help or they, you know, maybe in shock, not really know what you need and, and don't need that someone coming alongside you for a little bit might be, might be help. Jeanette, you look like maybe you were going to say something. Oh, yeah. I was going to say, I did receive tremendous support from, um, actually the, uh, church that Lloyd and I had been attending for years and I had transitioned to another church. (48:27 - 49:00) And so they were super supportive leading up to, and, um, even beyond up to a point, but then, you know, with grief and it, and of course varies for everybody. There's those, um, there's that, there's that quiet, um, time that comes after, you know, the weeks and days that, um, follows the memorial service. And so during that time, uh, Lloyd passed in July. (49:01 - 53:08) Um, and so that first Thanksgiving was a very, very lonely Thanksgiving in that the support from the places that I think typically you would expect it did not, did not come. Um, but again, you know, those are, you know, the, I think forces and opportunities that the Lord uses to grow your faith and, um, give you the, uh, choice to just lean in the more to Him. But it was those months afterwards, um, were very, very, very hard. But the initial days of, you know, walking through and a couple of months afterwards, um, the support was there. I did, there was a decision made to, uh, take months off from work because it was important to me to lean into my grief. I didn't, didn't feel compelled to go back in the, and every, every one of course processes their grief differently, but I needed that additional time to, um, grieve before going back into the marketplace. And so that was a tremendous help to be able to have that opportunity to just sit with it. Yeah. Do you, do you mind me asking just sort of a practical question? I think maybe this would, will help doulas as they work with families or perhaps people who listened to this and have been through the same, a similar experience, but I mean, you, you had to clean his apartment out. Did you have, did, did like his father help you with that? Or how, I'm just kind of curious how the steps. So again, as I had mentioned, there was a lot of moving parts in those last, uh, those last few years. And so, you know, the crash happened in 1997. So I want to say probably 19, I can't narrow down the years, but his being in his apartment was only like four or five year period. So that wasn't an issue that needed to be addressed, but his dad, my ex-husband was there when we had to go and identify his body. And I was set on wanting to see him in real time, but DC law doesn't allow you to do that. You only get to see a picture. And I was so grateful because, um, you know, he was there with me and it was, it was best that I see a picture as opposed to, um, his body. Um, and so he was as supportive, um, as he could be and was, you know, there up to and through the memorial service. Yeah. It's probably the hardest thing anybody ever has to do is identify their child after death. I'm really sorry. Thank you again for sharing, sharing all these, these little intricacies of your story with us. Taylana, you, I mean, I think you've sort of answered the question a little bit, but, um, but you're, do you have anything else you want to add? Um, yeah, but the, when they were talking about the support they had at first, I thought I didn't have any support, but then when I think about my father, there was a coworker, his dad had died and I talked to him a lot about my dad being sick and that really helped. But in the end, because he lived in the same city that my dad did, that he came to my father's service and he was, um, and I wasn't really even that close to this person, but he came to my father's service and later on and talked to me. (53:08 - 54:43) And he told me that helped him with, you know, what had happened with his dad when his dad died. But I realized that that was actually, it was, it was nice to be able to talk to someone who had gone through it. Yeah. And with my, with, with my mom, I was the one that provided support to my siblings. Yeah. Wow. Wow. Yeah. Hey Joyce. Can I just ask, um, like you've gone like through all this now, is there anything, and I'm obviously I'm in a different country than you, so there's probably, there could be similarities, but is there anything that you wished from a cultural perspective that we understood like after the death, after, or even prior, or I guess not too many of you had sort of that prior time, but that we would understand that's more like culturally specific. Um, so over here, I'm, my, my youngest child is actually Aboriginal. And so there's, there's what we call sorry business. So there's a time period of time where you really can't, we do, but there's a period of time where they don't, um, you know, do anything kind of thing. They're all gathering together with family and all that sort of stuff, which is a bit different in, in sort of in white culture in a sense. But I'm just wondering if you can come up, if there's anything that you can, that we can learn from, from a cultural perspective. (54:43 - 55:41) I don't know if that's helpful. You mean cultural perspective in their experience of someone they love dying? Is that what you mean? Or like? Well, obviously I'm thinking more in is, well, there might not be anything really different, but I'm thinking of like white versus African-American in the sense of how we would do it. Is there any differences that you would, that they would do differently? And that maybe we, that you wish that we, maybe there's nothing that you, that we understood more about, um, you know, about your culture in grieving, you know, I mean, over here too, you have this thing of, I don't know how much it is now, but if somebody dies, like in a nursing home, you have to open the window, like, is there in, and I'm just thinking more post, but I mean, it could also be at the time of maybe there's nothing. I'm just, you know, just seeing if there's anything there, but maybe there is nothing. Sorry. I didn't want to put you on the spot like that. (55:42 - 1:00:34) No, you know, I think it's a, I think it's a great question, Joyce. And, you know, as I've mentioned through training before, um, you know, the end of like doula movement, like the secular movement, um, they, they're, they're taking into account that, you know, different cultures grieve differently and that different, you know, communities, um, have different experiences in other communities. So maybe, you know, a white Anglo-Saxon Protestant community, you know, experiences death in one way. And, uh, you know, an African-American community may experience death in another way. That's something that's being explored through the secular movement. Um, so it's, it's a, it's, it's a good question. I don't know if either of you have a. I got a question just to stir along with that. Do you think it's just culture or do you think it's culture? It's, um, you know, like status, like where you fall on the economic thing, there's a lot of factors involved in the way people react to it's church culture, especially for Christians. Like Jeanette was saying, like, you know, her church, I think what you said, Jeanette, was that the church that you didn't go to anymore actually was reached still reaching out to you, you know, and that's interesting. That's something that, you know, is interesting because usually, you know, when I've left churches, it's not on good terms, you know, and people don't, and it sounds to me like that your old church actually stepped into the grieving process too, and, and contributed, you know, at least helped somewhat, you know, so I, I think that's interesting. That's an interesting thing too, because, you know, when I've left churches, I got no contact with them anymore. Seems like as soon as you stop putting money in the plate, you know, that's it, you know. Was that your experience, Jeanette? Was that- Yeah, the church, it's interesting because the church that I was presently, um, at the time of losing Lloyd was going to, Lloyd was very adamant. We had been at the other church for, you know, a little under 20 years, and he was like, Mom, you go right on over there. I'm staying here because this is where my, my family is, and it's so interesting because that church actually hosted, um, Lloyd's services. It was a larger venue, and what I found just, just warmed my heart, um, and I guess you could, you could qualify it as a megachurch of sorts. I had no expectation that the pastor would do the eulogy, and so I didn't even approach him about that, um, because there was sort of a standing policy that, you know, just because of the size of the church that he would only be able to do services for specific individuals, but because of the relationship that he had with Lloyd, um, he was a little offended that I didn't ask him to, to do it, and, um, so at any rate, he did end up doing the eulogy, and I was so blessed by, um, the service because he did not sugarcoat. I mean, I think all of us have the benefit of being at funerals where people create these pictures of people that you're asking, like, who, who is this person? But he was very, very, um, honest and transparent about Lloyd's journey, um, and I was very, very grateful for, um, grateful for that. But, um, circling back to, to Joyce's comment, um, and to your point, um, and I think that in the African American culture, it all, I think the foundation is just the family unit, and a lot of who we are and become, excuse me, stems from that environment across the board, and so if there's strength at that foundation, you know, it, it, it bolsters who you are as an individual. If those, if those pieces are not there, even when you get the benefit of education, sometimes, you know, it, it directs the trajectory. Um, and so I think that that's a, that's a truth across the board, whether we're talking about the Anglo or the African American community. (1:00:34 - 1:03:55) Yeah. That our foundation in terms of what it is that we're exposed to in our family of origin, um, is major into, in, in terms of who we become. I, I grew up in a very African American, 90%. My, my dad was an inner city pastor, so I know that warm, that warmth from the African American community. My two best friends are both African American guys, you know, people always look at me and they're like, how did, how does that happen? You know, and I'm like, I don't know, you know, it's God, you know, I said, that's just the, the people that I come into contact. Joyce, I was going to ask you, because this hits on something else that I just caught up. I don't know if anybody, you said your son is from Aboriginal descent, right? He is original. Just one second, what Jeanette, you said, you said, and I, and I should have picked it up earlier, and I noticed that with all three of you, I'll go to you in a minute, Ed, is that you could hear that family is really, sorry, I'm pointing, family is really, really important. Like Jeanette, you talk about, I was a helicopter parent, but I hear more that the relationship is so very important, and we are blessed. So my youngest child is, was, he's technically not mine anymore in terms of legalities, but he lives with me still. I fostered him from the age of five, and his family, so he was born extremely early, and his family is north of Western Australia. So we call that the Kimberley, it's a Kimberley area, and that's a predominantly Aboriginal family, communities and all that we've white sprinkled through. And so he's been living with me since he was five. And so we've had that real blessing of being able to visit with his family. And in many ways, in a way, my question is, is not mute, but more as in his Nana, who I have the most to do with connected wise, she identifies herself more as a Christian than as an Aboriginal. So she takes on more Christianity culture, you know, that life more than she takes on cultures that are more Aboriginal, if that makes sense. But in terms of relationship, every name that you, then I don't know if that's for you over there, is that what we call each other is all the relationship. So if I talk to her, I should be calling her mum, she's kind of like my mum. And then she calls me mum. Or if she talks to my boy, Elijah, she says, Hi, Nana, and he would say, Hi, Nana, because that's the relationship. It's a Nana relationship. So that's a really, and there's other cultural things as well that with the son in laws is they're called rumba. And it's they don't talk to them. They just don't. If you refer to them, you don't use their name. There's all those kind of cultural things, which, like it's taken me, I mean, he's been with me since five, and we sort of met with the family when he was like, seven. So that's like 10, what is that 10 plus years, 10, 11 years that we've, and it's taken a long time to learn, and I'm never gonna learn it all. (1:03:55 - 1:03:59) So yeah. Oops. Did that answer your question, Ed? Sorry. (1:04:00 - 1:05:19) Yeah, I think that's interesting. Because over here, you know, in America, it's like a big melting pot. So we cultures have assimilated into other cultures. And yeah, there's black and white and Chinese and all kinds of different cultures. But Americans kind of our big melting pot. So there's a commonality in our culture that is just American culture. You know what I mean? It doesn't identify with the skin, the color of your skin. Whereas I know that there's a big difference between Aboriginal culture, and you know, it'd be like here, Native American culture, as opposed to people who are not Native Americans, you know, the Native Americans. You have the difference of where they live. So we're north of WA, I mean, Western Australia, the northern part, probably the north of all of Australia, there's a lot more Aboriginal communities. But when you come more south, then there's a lot more mixing up. So you get a lot more pure Aboriginal people. Yeah. And to be perfectly honest, they're the more beautiful people that are in the world. They're just lovely to deal with, lovely to live with. (1:05:19 - 1:10:32) We move in, like I spend, you know, 11 months down here, and we live in with them for two months, or for a month, was broken up into two week lots. And we go into the house, and we live in the house. And, you know, I've never birthed a child, and I now have 16 children. And I'm a nana. I don't know how many times I'm a nana, I've got to count them every time. I've got seven grandchildren, right? Like, you become their nana, and you're an auntie to all these children. I don't even always know their relationship. This kid calls, hey, auntie, auntie, and it's like, oh, he's talking to me. So but that's still where the culture is so strong. Whereas down here, we don't, we have that, but we don't. It's, it's probably more like how you described the American. Yeah, it's more of a, is there Aboriginal culture within, like, like, are there certain traditions that they do with death? With with, like, when someone, you know, when someone dies, is there certain things that are culturally, like, so different? You know, I know this, because my, my nieces and nephew are all Arabic, they're half Arabic, their mother's Syrian. So there's a, and when I was telling you guys a story about my dad, that was the thing, my sister-in-law was really mad at me. Because in Arabic culture, they mourn really, like they wail, they and they mourn for days. And it's, it's like they really it's, they really get into mourning. And my sister-in-law couldn't get it because at my dad's wake, I was laughing. And I was joking around with my cousins, and I didn't show too much mourning emotion. And so my sister-in-law actually got offended at that, at the time. So I just... It's very, very much more open about grieving, like we would never, like, he's so, like my dad, like my, how I talk about Nana, her husband has died. So it's my dad, when, when it was the grave at the graveside, and we were burying him like two months after two or three months after he died. And the, which is a long time to have to wait to bury somebody. There's a very much in an openness about your grief that you really, like you say, you're wailing. And I think white culture is you can't show emotions. Now I come from a Dutch and Australian. So we could look a lot colder. We look a lot like, we might grieve at home with the door closed. We don't want anybody to know. But for the rest, we're like, it's not as open about it all. And I find that with, I don't know if that's the same for African American, the bit that I've seen, I feel like it's very similar, but there it's, it's very open. They don't, their emotions are very, they don't hide their emotion. Like I'm on Facebook with them and you hear their whole life, like everything, whereas we would just keep it to ourselves and only promote this one, you know, very pretty picture kind of thing.Laurel saw me, I worked at a Dutch church, a Dutch reformed church. And it was very hard getting any kind of emotional reaction out of those people. So you're muted. My mom is, doesn't like to show any emotion like at all in any type of Christian things. And she'll say, well, I'm the frozen chosen, right? So I think that there there is very much a difference between the culturally, you know, rather than made Protestants maybe like call themselves the frozen chosen, where the first doula client I ever worked for, she was a black woman from South Africa and her funeral in the state, she was part of a Pentecostal church. And I had never been to an event such as that. And it was, you know, you wouldn't probably have that in Calvary St. George's, the Episcopal church that I went to, but so it was, it was definitely a learning experience. Hey, Allegra, would you like to say something? Yeah, I was just curious. I remembered, if I'm remembering this correctly, apart from your story, Lydia, where you were talking about, somebody said that maybe you should go to school to learn about dementia or something. And I was just curious about what that part was, or maybe I misheard you. No, you was right. They said they had a program going on at one of the college campuses. And it was teaching you all about dementia, telling you different things. And we were certified that we were able to go out and teach others. I didn't do that. But it taught a lot, because back then, dementia wasn't that talked about. It wasn't like now, it's a lot. But I think back then, they used to say, my mother used to say, hardening of the artery. So I don't know if that was saved. That's what they called it. (1:10:32 - 1:10:38) But it was just new then. So it was just so much that we didn't know. So that's why she did that. (1:10:38 - 1:14:39) Yeah. Oh, okay. That's interesting. I'm glad you asked that. Because I was wondering, too, if it was just for caregivers and family members, or if it was something maybe a little bit more structured. Yeah, mostly everybody that was there were going through things with their parents or caregivers. But it was like, it was a lot. I mean, a lot of times, we used to still get together over the years where we stopped now. But it was a lot of wealth of knowledge. It helped a lot and opened up doors that you didn't know about. Yeah. Wow. Well, I was just reading through some things today as I was, you know, sign up for newsletters and get emails. And one of the emails, e-newsletters said, it reminded me that caregivers of people with dementia, it's one of the hardest roles, because it can last so long. It can be so complicated. And I didn't even think about that. But was that 25 years ago? How long ago did your mom start showing? Yes, it was about that. Yeah. And it was very hard. And like I said, I didn't know anything. It was not programs out there. And at that time, my child was young. So there was like, now you can see on TV, they'll tell you things when they become combative. We didn't know that. And, you know, the down sundown, I mean, she used to be up all night. So I have taken up work. When I went back to work, it was like, what in the world happened to you? But yeah. Wow. So it is very, very hard. Yeah. But I didn't even think about that. I mean, how far we've come in understanding dementia, educating about dementia. That's, you know, 25 years ago, it wasn't as easy to find resources. So praise God that the college had something and you were able to be a part of that. Well, that's an amazing part of your story, because I bet a lot of us don't think about that at all. Wow. How many years was that, Lydia, that your mom was like that? It was by 2005 or so. Yeah. And I just remember when I was moving her back to Atlanta, I will never forget, my husband was in a U-Haul with my dad. And I was driving, my son was in the car seat in the back. And she kept on saying, where are we going? And I was like, to Atlanta. Oh, I have a daughter that lives in Atlanta. Her name is Lydia. And it just was tearing my nerves up. Yeah, it's so hard. That's what my mother does.Laurel handles it way better than I do. I go to the hospital to see my mother. And my mother talks about she wants to go back to New Jersey to see her parents. Her parents never lived in New Jersey. Yeah. It's so hard. One of the toughest things to deal with is to watch the decline when someone has dementia. It's very difficult. And then when you take her out, I took her out of her comfort zone. And I didn't know that then, but it just made everything worse. And she had a dog, and I was taking the dog with my dad. I said, no, don't take the dog. And I hate I didn't do that, because that made it worse also. Yeah. But you learn. Yeah. I think it's the role that gets shifted, isn't it? You become the child, and you grow up, and you grow up. And now suddenly, you're not a child anymore. You've got this relationship where you now are the parent taking charge of your mother or parent, whichever one it is. And so the roles are switched again. (1:14:40 - 1:16:51) Again, are switched. And I think that's where it becomes really hard, whereas other people can walk in, and it's not as difficult, because they've never been in that child role. They've only ever been at that level. Well, another great conversation. Another wonderful cafe. And so the Thursday Night Cafe, just as a reminder, is just once a month. I love it. I think that kind of an evening thing is, or having an evening thing is nice. The theme of the evening cafe is healing. And I came up with that because I used to lead a healing ministry in a church. And I do truly believe that end-of-life conversations need... They always have something that we could find healing and something that's happened. But also, I really believe that because God is faithful to us, that the end-of-life experience can be full of healing. So exploring deeper discussions on healing when we're not getting maybe our prayers answered, that we avoid the suffering. If God hasn't seemingly answered my prayer with exactly what I wanted, which was to avoid the suffering and to avoid the disappointment, is he still really at work healing me? And I think we could all say, yes, he's brought healing even when the situation has suffering and pain. So I think tonight's discussions fell right into the category. And so I really appreciate Jeanette and Taylana and Lydia for working outside of the cafe tonight and pulling your stories together and sharing them with us and kind of taking off the comfort zone for you, especially, I think, Taylana. So thank you.